Shriveled raisins: The bitter harvest of “affirmative” care

by the parents of 4thWaveNow

Note to readers: This is another in an ongoing series of posts which shine a light on the public statements made by gender specialists in various forums. The aim here, as always, is to inform the public, particularly parents, about the actions and self-reported thoughts and plans of individuals who are currently involved in providing hormones and surgeries to minors. All screen captures are from publicly accessible (i.e. not password-protected or otherwise private) websites. We intend to continue to exercise our free-speech right to report on these public statements, as well as publishing our personal opinions on pediatric transition and those who enable and promote it.

To anyone who may object to our work in this area, hear this: The backlash represented by 4thWaveNow, Transgender Trend, Youth Gender Professionals, and the increasing number of individuals and organizations who question the burgeoning increase in child and youth transition is precisely that: a backlash against the decision taken by trans activists and their media handmaidens to relentlessly promote pediatric transition—especially MEDICAL transition.

The final straw, for many of us, has been the shameless and daily attempts by activists, journalists, and some clinicians to misuse self-harm statistics as a weapon to bludgeon parents into submission. A recent article in Spiked Online exposed this immoral and deeply destructive tactic, and we will continue to expose it on 4thWaveNow.

Scattered through the posts on this site, we have discussed the fact that puberty blockers followed by (or used concurrently with) cross-sex hormones to prevent the “wrong puberty” in prepubertal kids results in irreversible sterilization. This is well-recognized fact, openly acknowledged by researchers and top pediatric gender specialists alike [see the bottom of this post for a collection of links on this matter].


The reason is that gametes (sperm and ova) require natural, biological puberty to mature to the point that they are viable for reproduction. It is not currently possible to freeze immature gametes, as it is for those of adult trans people who have been allowed to go through natal puberty.

Our point is not that anyone and everyone should have biological children or that women are only fit to be baby machines (a red herring “argument” that has been used against us by trans activists). It also has nothing to do with the demographics of who will ultimately decide to bear or father children. (I notice none of these activists cavalierly argue for sterilization of disabled or gay people, both of whom have a lower statistical rate of becoming biological parents). The point is that it is a human rights violation to sterilize minors, who by definition cannot consent nor understand what it means to give up that future right.  And given that the majority of “persisting” trans kids are same-sex attracted, it is not a stretch to see that prepubescent sterilization of “trans kids” amounts in many cases to a form of proactive anti-gay eugenics—even if that is not the conscious intention. What’s more, as many parents know, the decision to reproduce may come later in life, even if we thought in our youth that we wouldn’t have wanted children. Most young people naturally don’t spend their time thinking about having kids of their own; they have other priorities at that stage of life, as well they should.

But does any of this matter if adult trans people aren’t particularly interested in reproduction?


Well, it turns out that several studies have shown that a majority of trans men and trans women desire to have biological children of their own. 


But even setting aside research evidence, all you have to do is look at the increasing number of (sometimes sensationalized) media stories about “pregnant men” to know this is “a thing”.

There are a sufficient number of trans men becoming pregnant and giving birth that the premier midwifery organization in the United States has changed all its literature to be “gender neutral” in an ostensible effort to avoid “triggering” its clients with words like “woman” and “breasts.” Planned Parenthood now campaigns on behalf of “menstruators” and the venerable La Leche League has even scrubbed its language of inconvenient mentions of biological reality, to ensure that trans men who want to “chest feed” won’t feel excluded.


But when it comes to the fertility of trans people,  trans activists want to have their cake and eat it too: Celebrate and support adult trans who decide (often unexpectedly) to reproduce, while fiercely lobbying for medical intervention which permanently sterilizes prepubescent children. There is really no way to square this contradiction. They constantly claim that stopping the “wrong puberty” is the only antidote to suicide, yet that “wrong” puberty is the one and only pathway to possible reproduction in the future.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but the very people arguing that the only alternative to these sterilizing pediatric treatments is suicide are very much alive, and quite a fair few of them (notably, several top MTF trans activists) have biological children of their own. “Do as I say, not as I do” is rightly ridiculed as hypocrisy when it comes to any other subject. How on earth did these people survive to adulthood, father children, yet now harangue us that the “wrong” puberty of these children must be stopped?

As to the weaponization of suicidality: There is no record in the history of medicine of children and teenagers killing themselves because they could not medically transition in childhood, or because they were “born in the wrong body.” (Since August when this piece was posted, we’ve been waiting for any evidence to the contrary.) Even the most frequently cited “41%” study of trans adults who have reported suicidal ideation doesn’t assert that medical transition cures suicidality.

So, given that

  • large numbers of adult trans men and women express a desire to have biological children;
  • no child or pre-adolescent can know for certain whether or not they will eventually want to reproduce;
  • it is a universally acknowledged human rights violation to sterilize minors;
  • and there is no evidence that early medical transition will ultimately reduce self harming behaviors,

we must ask: Why do gender specialists continue the reckless practice of promoting sterilizing hormones and surgical interventions on prepubescent children, who, by virtue of their undeveloped powers of reason and judgment, cannot meaningfully consent to such treatments? On what authority does any adult—including these children’s parents—have the right to make a decision for a minor that should solely belong to adults of reproductive age themselves?

Even if it turns out to be true that most of these kids won’t opt for biological reproduction in the future, what of the (already limited) pool of potential life partners they might fall in love with? It’s not at all uncommon for couples to part company over disagreements about whether to have children. And then there’s the issue of what genital surgeries do to sexual response and function. None of this is ever discussed in the glowing portraits of “trans kids” that we see daily in the mainstream media (though it is by the clinicians themselves—as you’ll see shortly).

The gender specialists are fully aware of the irreversible effects of their interventions. Gender clinics detail the risks of infertility and other permanent changes on their consent forms. Research articles, public statements, and news articles capture the admissions by prominent gender specialists (again, see the bottom of this piece for links). Some express reservations (but no accompanying intention to cease and desist or even slow down their caseloads); some mention it in passing. And some, as you’ll see in a moment, appear to lose no sleep at night over what they’re doing, but only express interest in the future market for even more high tech interventions for the young people entrusted to their care.

Last March, Johanna Olson-Kennedy, MD (herself a parent), one of the world’s most successful and best known pediatric gender specialists, posted a call on the publicly accessible WPATH Facebook page for earlier genital surgeries on minors. We wrote about it at the time in this post.

Olson orig post.jpg

The irony is inescapable: By puberty blocking young people, endocrinologists create a situation where these youth naturally yearn for puberty, as they watch their unblocked peers mature and move on. Olson-Kennedy’s solution? More high-tech, expensive medical intervention; earlier cross-sex hormones, earlier sex reassignment surgery. An iatrogenic problem created in the first place by suppressing the perfectly healthy bodies of young people.

Just a few days ago, Olson’s original post was revived via several new comments supporting her radical idea. This one, by Susan Maasch, founder of the Trans Youth Equality Foundation (TYEF) is particularly striking. ( We wrote about TYEF—a purveyor of free breast binders (secretly to girls with “unsupportive” parents) and youth transition propaganda, last year.)


“Shriveled raisins”: The outcome of years of hormone treatment unnatural to the female body.

Other activists and pediatric gender specialists, including Rixt Luikenaar (ironically, an OB-GYN), Kathie Moelig (founder of TransFamily Support Services), and others acknowledge that sterilization (which their clients may someday regret) will result from early surgeries and hormones, but place their faith in high-tech medicine to find a way around it—eventually.


This unquestioning belief that medical technology will solve the problems created by zealous “affirmative” gender specialists is widely shared.  Just a couple of days ago, NPR ran an article acknowledging that immature gametes can’t currently be preserved for future reproduction. But by drawing on fertility preservation research  in cancer survivors treated with sterilizing chemotherapy, the pediatric-transition pushers hope that  puberty-blocked children’s ova and sperm can eventually be coaxed to reproductive viability in a petri dish.

Both groups — young cancer patients and trans kids hoping to transition early — have a demand for fertility preservation at an age where it has not usually been possible. But researchers say they are drawing closer to a solution with new techniques to freeze, or cryopreserve, immature reproductive cells…

… they started to look for ways to grow that tissue in a petri dish, so it can develop into a mature egg. “We’ve had to borrow knowledge from other disciplines and sort of figure out how that applies to trans people … What can be frustrating sometimes is having to adapt and extrapolate all of this information from work that is not done for trans people.” — Zil Goldstein, Mount Sinai

Brave New World. Puts a whole new spin on “test tube babies.” Not to mention a future boost for the surrogacy industry.

No one in the mainstream media—in this case, NPR– seems willing to point out the obvious: If you let these kids simply mature naturally–as their healthy bodies are desperately fighting to be allowed to do–they can preserve their fertility and decide whether they want to choose hormonal or surgical interventions when they reach adulthood,  with mature judgment and reasoning powers. There would be the added benefit of giving kids a chance to desist before it’s too late—as so many were allowed to do before “gender affirmative” treatment was advertised 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.  Only a few years ago, this would have been seen as just common sense caution. Adults-only transition was the norm.

There are other ramifications besides infertility resulting from this reckless rush for earlier and earlier surgeries and hormonal treatments.  Here, Olson-Kennedy and other commenters analyze the impact of surgeries on sexual function—but disagree on how much should be discussed with the kids themselves about their future orgasm potential after their genitalia have been surgically rejiggered.


At least one “practitioner” seems not to want concerns about orgasm potential to be a “hindrance” to  a child achieving their “authentic self”:


Bringing us into 2017, Jenn Burleton, head of Transactive Gender Center, assured the Facebook group on January 18 that orgasm is a discussion topic amongst “caregivers” in Transactive support groups. Good to know parents and other adults feel empowered to make decisions for these kids about their adult sexual function and fertility in their “support groups.”

Burleton orgasm.jpg

(Just a thought: how many of these people publicly pontificating about the sexual function of children consider how they’d have felt as teens if adults had been scheming about their orgasm potential, and the impact thereon from a surgeon’s scalpel?)

In January 2017, nearly a year after Olson-Kennedy’s original post calling for the WPATH Standards of Care 8 to support earlier genital surgeries, many clinicians, activists, and parent leaders of trans youth groups remain keenly interested in lowering age of surgeries for youth. From the sounds of it, “many many” surgeons are eager to oblige.


Dan Karasic, MD, director of a gender clinic at UC San Francisco, moderator of the WPATH Facebook page,  and a key player in WPATH and the co-chair of the recently formed USPATH, helpfully informs us  that a discussion on under-18 surgeries will take place at the inaugural USPATH conference February 5 2017. “Advocacy” to pressure insurance companies to get onboard and pay for genital surgeries on minors is also an important part of the discussion.

This isn’t the first time we’ve seen Dr. Karasic advocating for lowering the age for surgeries. In this post, we discussed his public support for a mother obtaining double mastectomy for her 15-year-old and her attempts to get her insurance company to foot the bill for it.

Again: The people advocating for drastic and irreversible medical interventions on minors have enormous power over the future lives of children. The decisions they have taken with their careers and activism will impact a generation of youth for a lifetime. These adults, trans or not, were allowed to mature without medical interference in the era preceding this Age of the Trans Child.

Some of the people weighing in are trans adults, among them MTFs who have fathered children and had successful careers, who were not subjected to tampering and scheming about their most private and personal bodily functions as children. And as much as the trans activists may claim they’d have welcomed such interventions as children, the fact remains: Somehow they made it to adulthood, fertility and sexual function intact, without killing themselves.

Exactly what authority gives these people the right to advocate for and perform medical experiments on children, “trans” or not? This is a question a lot more people need to be asking.

Meanwhile, the USPATH conference  session on surgery in minors is on Sunday, February 5 at 10:15 AM  in Los Angeles.

Readers will undoubtedly recognize some of the names on this panel.


For more information about the irreversible sterilizing effects of puberty blockers followed by cross-sex hormones on prepubescent children, see below. Readers contributions are welcome and will be added to this list.

Sahar Sadjadi, The Endocrinologist’s Office—Puberty Suppression: Saving Children from a Natural Disaster?

It must be remembered that puberty suppression as the first step to medical transition, if followed by cross-sex hormones, which has been the case for almost all reported cases, leads to infertility due to the permanent immaturity of the gonads and the reproductive tract. The absence of the discussion of sterilization of children as a major ethical challenge in this bioethics article, and many other clinical debates on puberty suppression, is striking. For any other group of children, such an intervention would be discussed extensively with ethics review boards. (What grounds might justify the permanent elimination of the child’s reproductive ability? Should parents be able to make such a decision for the child? Which futures are opened by the treatment and which ones are foreclosed? How might benefits be weighed in relation to the loss of reproductive capacity?) The media would likely react with investigations and questions about the long-term consequences of treatment. These “queer” children’s bodily integrity and reproductive rights should not be any less pressing than other children’s. Needless to say, children are not legally capable of consent, and 9–10 year olds are not capable of understanding all the health consequences of the treatment. Parents are asked to make life decisions on issues as critical as fertility for young children. Can they make an informed decision and evaluate benefits vis a vis risks when confronted with such horrendous forecasts for their children?

 Unique ethical and legal implications of fertility preservation research in the pediatric population

 Norman Spack, MD, founder of first US pediatric gender clinic:

The biggest challenge is the issue of fertility. When young people halt their puberty before their bodies have developed, and then take cross-hormones for a few years, they’ll probably be infertile. You have to explain to the patients that if they go ahead, they may not be able to have children. When you’re talking to a 12-year-old, that’s a heavy-duty conversation. Does a kid that age really think about fertility? But if you don’t start treatment, they will always have trouble fitting in. And my patients always remind me that what’s most important to them is their identity.

Brill & Pepper, The Transgender Child, 2008, p. 216

“The choice to progress from GnRH inhibitors to estrogen without fully experiencing male puberty should be viewed as giving up one’s fertility, and the family and child should be counseled accordingly”. For girls, sterilization is the outcome too, because “eggs do not mature until the body goes through puberty”

Diane Ehrensaft, video clip from conference. Time stamp: 5:06

“Another thing that’s a show-stopper around [parents] giving consent is the fertility issue. That if the child goes directly from puberty blockers to cross- sex hormones they are pretty much forfeiting their fertility and won’t be able to have a genetically related child.”

Robert Garofolo,

“It’s an imperfect field with regards to decisions we are asking these families to make,” acknowledged Dr. Robert Garofalo, who co-directs the Center for Gender, Sexuality and HIV Prevention at Chicago’s Lurie Children’s Hospital and is also working on the transgender youth study. Garofalo hopes the team will be able to study patients far beyond the current five-year term to address a host of questions that currently have no answers. Does hormone use in trans youth increase breast cancer risk? How well do adults who have transitioned as teens grapple with their loss of fertility? “These are things that are entirely unknown,” Garofalo said.


54 thoughts on “Shriveled raisins: The bitter harvest of “affirmative” care

    • These really are ‘creepy characters from a dystopian novel’: Frankenstein tried to escape his pain at the death of his mother by creating a living being from dead bodies. Norman Spack in the BBC documentary (Transgender Kids Who Knows Best) talks of a sixteen year old patient ‘giving birth to herself’. Lorimer (see previous post) talks about ‘possibilities for cross-fertilization’ between the child Tavistock GIC and the adult Charing X GIC. Repulsively the gender specialists in the WPATH discussion imagine surgically creating orgasmic potential in the bodies of children. Iatrogenic disease only spurs these gender docs on to new forms of intervention. They want to produce people who look normal, who fit gender stereotypes. No one seems to be listening to intersex activists who reject early surgical intervention as an assault on the bodies of children.

      Liked by 5 people

  1. How do you “discuss orgasms” (that sounds so wrong and gross) with a child (!!) that isn’t allowed to experience sexual maturation. Hormones (in men) and gnrh agonists kill the sex drive of adults and make their genitals atrophy. So you can imagine what it does to children – the SAME THING.

    Boys have it worse than girls in this regard. Testosterone doesn’t kill the sex drive in adult women (it’s still fucking dangerous tho). The reality is that boys who get transed early are left with nothing and surgery just destroys what’s left.

    No sexual maturation PLUS drugs that kill the sex drive and cause genital shrinking PLUS the destruction of their male sexual organs trough surgery. These boys not only get sterilized but also their male sexuality is taken from them.

    All this because they like to wear dresses and play with dolls. Fuck trans ideology. It’s insanity.

    Liked by 20 people

    • That creeped me out too. It’s a different kind of creepy and inappropriate from how Mormon bishops conduct closed-door “Temple worthiness” interviews with minors and ask questions about masturbation and other private matters. How many kids feel comfortable discussing that with anyone, particularly adults?

      Since male genitalia shrink so much from these drugs, and since these boys are starting to take the drugs so young, there won’t be enough of a penis to surgically invert into a “normal” sized neovagina. Odds are these doctors aren’t telling their clients this, since they hide so many other things.

      Liked by 8 people

      • “Since male genitalia shrink so much from these drugs, and since these boys are starting to take the drugs so young, there won’t be enough of a penis to surgically invert into a “normal” sized neovagina.”

        There are screenshots on this blog where doctors discuss this.
        They say that since there isn’t enough tissue for srs – flesh from other body parts is needed. Can you imagine what the srs result will be like? Horrifying.

        Liked by 6 people

    • The reality is that boys who get transed early are left with nothing and surgery just destroys what’s left.

      No sexual maturation PLUS drugs that kill the sex drive and cause genital shrinking PLUS the destruction of their male sexual organs trough surgery. These boys not only get sterilized but also their male sexuality is taken from them.

      While the fertility issue is serious (and the above article is outstanding), I wondered also about their ability to function sexually in any capacity. If they are never allowed to go through puberty, and do not undergo surgery, will they always have an immature-sized penis?

      On the other hand, if they do have surgery without being allowed puberty, my understanding is there is not enough tissue from their genitals to make a “neo vagina.” So they won’t have the satisfaction of at least having half-way decent fascimile of female genitals. Let alone the capacity for genital sexual satisfaction…

      Not saying this well, I guess. Just agreeing with the poster above – either way is a bad deal for these unfortunate kids. Thanks for the great work you are doing here, 4th wave and colleagues.

      Liked by 6 people

  2. When you’re talking to a 12-year-old, that’s a heavy-duty conversation… but if you don’t start treatment, they will always have trouble fitting in.

    Dr. Spack is an endocrinologist, not a lowly developmental psychologist, but surely he has memories of junior high school. Has it truly never occurred to him that in an interaction with a vulnerable tween, this is the ideal line of questioning to elicit the response he wants to hear? If you suggest to a seventh grader that they’ll never fit in socially if they don’t do something, you could get them to sign an “informed consent” waiver to jump off a bridge.

    Liked by 12 people

  3. I might be reading too much into a single Facebook post, but the reference to an “authentic self” as opposed to a “true gender” is a revealing choice of words. I expect that over the next few years, as more and more detransitioners speak out and the human cost of the push to transition kids and teens becomes undeniable, there’s going to be an increasingly frantic rush to shore up the trans narrative by reframing it in terms of “genderqueer” or “non-binary” identities — telling desisters that their hormones and surgery were never about being “a boy’s brain in a girl’s body” (or vice versa), they were about exploring the wonderful postmodern rainbow of performative gender options, and aren’t we all a little “queer” in our own unique ways, and blah blah blah.

    We discussed this a little bit in the comments to the last post; this was the gist of Julia Serano’s response to Cari’s survey, which I take as representative of how the organized trans movement will respond to the stories told by detransitioners. (I feel like I refer to Serano’s article in every other comment I make, but it’s such an appalling example of trans doublespeak being used to silence the lived experience of actual flesh-and-blood human beings.)

    Liked by 8 people

    • I think the invention of non-binary to not only capture those who don’t want the horror of surgery, but also capture kids who would grow into (or just have a phase of) being a tomboy. butch girl or an effeminate or just sensitive boy.

      It may not mean SRS but can still involve mastectomy and hormones. Indeed hormones are now being used almost like recreational drugs. And of course you still sign up to the bullshit ideology and an obsession with presentation and gender identity.

      Liked by 3 people

    • I’ve already seen gender therapists rationalizing detransition as “non-binary” or “non-linear” transition. It’s not that these therapists misdiagnosed their patients (how could they, since transgenderism is solely self-diagnosed in the first place?), after all, it’s that gender is “fluid” and the absolute need for one intervention might evolve into the need for another. Best care, don’t you know?

      The creation of this narrative by therapists serves the purpose of freeing them from responsibility for the harms generated by their medical interventions and places the onus on the individuals, themselves. Further, it creates a convenient rationalization for those individuals who have spent inordinate amounts of energy insisting to others that they *really were* trans, but who have found that their decision –no matter how formulated yet *professionally approved* –was a painful mistake. By adopting these sorts of *scripts,* the victims of what is essentially malpractice can not only save face, but can also utilize them to establish an “identity” by which others can make sense of their permanently altered bodies. In this sense, such narratives can become convenient for the detransitioners, as well.

      Ultimately, there’s no reason for anyone to point a finger at unscrupulous therapists who didn’t bother to delve into underlying psychiatric issues leading to their patients desire to take such extreme measures–they’re all just *typical* cases of non-linear transition. No biggie.

      Liked by 5 people

  4. I think if the general public knew these FACTS they would not so easily accept the transitioning of children with GnRH agonists. These are not simply magical “puberty blockers”. They are powerful drugs that influence the signaling systems in the deepest parts of the brain, the hypothalamus and pituitary.

    These drugs were developed in the seventies and eighties as last resort cancer chemotherapy agents. And they work quite well at buying time in the desperate cases of prostate and uterine cancer they were made to treat.

    But to give these drugs to children who just happen to be gender nonconforming? That’s medical torture. And it’s not just raisin ovaries or failed cervixes, the prostate gland will not grow to proper size and males on GnRH agonists often have urinary incontinence as well as reduced or absent fertility.

    In both sexes these drugs inhibit bone growth and bone hardening sometimes resulting in arthritis and shorter stature. Except for the pain of arthritis maybe it’s all according to plan that their boy who will become their trans “daughter” is shorter than average, but what about the girls who become trans “sons” shorter than the women they could have grown up to be?

    Seriously y’all. Transitioning GNC children is the biggest threat to the gay and lesbian community. Since so many GNC girls seem to be throwing themselves on the sacrificial altar of transition I think it’s almost clear that the trans movement is the lesbian AIDS.

    Yes, it’s that severe. The upcoming generation generation of lesbians will not replenish the ranks of the old if things go on like this. This is genocide, and it’s working.

    Liked by 17 people

    • bacopa, it is genocide not just of future lesbians, but of anyone who doesn’t feel comfortable stretching gender stereotypes. My XX lovely daughter found the trans ideology appealing because she doesn’t like her impression of what it means to be a woman. Now she is a “he”, one year on HRT, lickety-split, a very happy gay man. Yes, that makes her heterosexual, but in her mind “he” identifies as a gay man. You can’t make this stuff up.

      Liked by 9 people

      • I feel your pain. My natal male child ( not on HRT yet) identifies as a lesbian. The child doesn’t “feel” male now, but looks like one, dresses like one and certainly eats like one. We recently had a conversation regarding the current political protests in the United States. He told me that “his people” have been struggling for centuries. I asked if he meant the LGTBQ community, then trans women to see where he was going with “his people”. The answer was “women, just women”. He was taken aback when I told that he had never lived a day of his life as a woman and had no idea what it was like to be one despite what he might believe in his own head. Delusional doesn’t even begin to cover this crap. There is absolutely no polite way to tell someone that in their original form they are simply a heterosexual adolescent in need of quality therapy.

        Liked by 11 people

      • Maria, that is what is so distressing about this…there is no counselor that will say, “so, why do you think you’re transgender?”. No one will touch that. It is affirm only. They are who they say they are. Spiraling down and down at record speed. Makes it very hard for anyone to change their mind or even think to ask for help to sort through it all.

        This issue, obviously, is that it is easy to make mistakes. Those who really could end up happy in their birthday suits may end up permanent medical patients. Thankfully there are child psychologists out there like Dr. Zucker who are able to understand how children think and help them to accept themselves.

        Liked by 6 people

      • Maria Your account of your natal son’s delusive mental world is horribly familiar to me. My son too is strikingly masculine in tastes, body language and behaviour yet has suddenly acquired a place in the long history of female oppression. Joan of Arc (a noted transguy) according to him, went to the stake rather than renounce his authentic self.

        Liked by 2 people

      • I could talk for hours about how much damage I believe my child’s former therapist did. In our post-revelation session, the therapist dismissed my concerns over future reproduction by telling me that my child absolutely did not want children and that I was probably exercising my own selfish need for grandchildren rather than my child’s best interests.
        Something else happened that I actually find equally disturbing in retrospect. My child periodically sees a medical specialist for a chronic illness within the same healthcare system as the former therapist. There is also a spiffy, relatively new gender clinic on campus. At a previous appointment, the medical specialist said that they wanted to speak with all of their adolescent patients and parents separately, but appointments had been running late all day and there wasn’t time to do so with us then.
        At the next appointment, a few months ago, we were briefly separated. I was asked if I thought my child might be experiencing any sort of gender issues because studies have found that stress, particularly the stress of living with gender issues, exacerbates and sometimes causes flares of chronic illness. If so, the specialist would be happy to make a referral to the gender clinic. As my child had not yet made their trans revelation, I found the concept ridiculous. I also reminded the specialist that my child’s condition is hereditary. My child, on the other hand, has since reported finding the screening validating ( as though the doctor could “see” ) and told the specialist that there were issues, but did not want a referral at the time.
        At the time, I did not think that the inquiry was personal but did feel that the screening was recruitment on some level and felt that the specialist might well be stepping outside their purvue with patients. There was almost a carnival barker/ ringmaster invitation to see what was inside the tent vibe to the screening. I cannot say whether this is health system policy or a particular doctor excited by the trans phenomenon.

        Liked by 2 people

      • As a gay man, I can tell you that few actual gay men will be interested in a “man” with a vagina or one of those ghastly fake penises.

        Liked by 4 people

      • My son too is strikingly masculine in tastes, body language and behaviour yet has suddenly acquired a place in the long history of female oppression.

        This isn’t directed at SunMum or other commenter in particular, since I don’t know all your specific stories, but from my vantage point as an observer of “campus-onset dysphoria,” I sometimes wonder whether part of the appeal of the trans subculture is that it gives troubled, nonconforming straight kids from “boring” middle-class white suburbia a readymade identity politics narrative to identify with. All of a sudden they’re not just a regular tomboy or nerd, they’re part of a persecuted minority group with its own heroes and martyrs and a long (if spurious, to a skeptical outsider) history of “resistance.”

        Modern youth/campus culture, both official outlets like MTV and Buzzfeed and bottom-up social media culture on Twitter/Facebook/Tumblr, puts a huge premium on being “woke” with regard to social justice issues. I agree with these things in principle (supporting LGB rights, opposing racism and anti-immigrant bigotry, etc.), but on social media this culture can be punitive and driven by groupthink in a way that must be challenging for troubled young people still figuring out their own identites.

        The Rachel Dolezal example often comes up in gender-skeptical discussions, but the point that doesn’t get made often enough is that Dolezal wasn’t a con artist, she was someone with a complicated family background (the biological child of parents who had also adopted several African children) who by all accounts really did subjectively feel as if she were “not white.” I think it’s possible that there’s a similar dynamic going on in the heads of at least some straight but gender-nonconforming kids who adopt a trans (or “queer”) identity, especially when they think of themselves as politically aware — trans lets them go from being a bit player, as someone else’s “ally,” to being the star of their own narrative.

        Liked by 6 people

      • Excellent comment, heteronerd. “Campus-onset” is a great way to put it. I strongly suspect my daughter falls into this group. In her case, it was her high school campus, and the perfect storm occurred when all at the same time she started high school, discovered Tumblr, her suddenly womanly body made her the target of sexual harassment, her lifelong friends began morphing into “hot girls” and liking that attention (leaving my d behind), academic pressure was turned up several notches, and she discovered that being a plain vanilla hetero white girl from an upper-middle class nuclear family did not earn her any SJW points. Being “just” an ally meant virtual invisibility, sitting on the sidelines.

        I realize “campus onset trans” applies to both males and females, but just to add a comment regarding girls: As Gail Dines puts it in her excellent video, girls in today’s culture must be “fuckable,” otherwise they are invisible. Girls who find both of those options unacceptable may be vulnerable — the trans movement can offer them validation that they have worth despite not going along with what it takes to be “fuckable.” Here’s a link to the video if anyone is interested.

        Regarding Dolezal, my daughter won’t hear anything about her. In her mind, Dolezal is a fraud. Bruce Jenner came out as trans about that same time Dolezal was exposed, if I recall correctly, and she would not give an inch to Dolezal but praised Jenner as a hero. *Sigh.*

        Liked by 3 people

      • This is a reply for Maria; I’m not sure if it will nest properly.

        Your account of the doctor attempting to recruit your child is chilling. I have to wonder what the doctor’s “private little talk” did to spur along your child’s desire to transition. Every parent should be made aware of this possibility.

        I would love to see that doctor reported and reprimanded.

        Liked by 4 people

    • “Since so many GNC girls seem to be throwing themselves on the sacrificial altar of transition I think it’s almost clear that the trans movement is the lesbian AIDS.”

      What a great way to put it; I couldn’t agree more. It is infuriating that medical professionals are doing this to our kids, and frustrating that most parents and 99% of the general public have no idea of the harms being done.

      Liked by 9 people

      • My ex-daughter said she wanted male stuff like being listened to when she spoke and having people give her space on the street and in stores. However, the new problem that now presented itself to her as a liberal middle class white girl was that now she wasn’t from an oppressed group anymore. It almost made me laugh that these young MTT are now talking about their oppressed status. Of course, trans is also trumpeted as an oppressed status, with the murder of trans people being very well advertised (even when the murders seems to have more to do with their dangerous work in the sex trade that being targeted as trans). It is remarkable that when trans people attack others with knives or axes or rape people, suddenly they are female and we are not to call attention to their trans status. My ex-daughter posted on her Facebook page that “There is no such thing as trans suicide, there is only trans murder”, so it seems that a trans identity makes your decision to take your own life always someone else’s fault. Bad things are done TO trans people, they do not do bad things themselves, is the message I get.

        Liked by 4 people

  5. Thank you again, 4thWaveNow, for calling attention to what is going on with Transgender Kids. How in the world did we ever get to this point? This is not a good use of modern medicine. How are parents being convinced to go along with this? Fear and confusion, and no doubt a great lack of knowledge of what is at stake for their children’s health in the future.

    As with my XX “son” who announced “his” coming out after turning 18, no one cares to point out any underlying issues because “he’s happy, what is the problem?” (as said by his psychologist)….a very short-term view.

    Liked by 9 people

  6. Here’s what also occurs to me about child/teen transition, prompted by this piece.

    Everyone, from the most radical and committed trans-activist on down, has to admit that, despite THE most extreme medical procedures and treatments imaginable, a person of one natal sex will never be “entirely” changed into a person of the other natal sex. That is to say, and unfortunately having to go into detail somewhat, a natal male will never have an actual vulva and vagina and a natal female will truly never have a functioning penis and testicles. A person can appear to be “the other sex” in all other respects, but whatever that person has for sex organs, will be a far, far cry from the real thing. Needless to say, a person who has transitioned, regardless of age, will never be able to function as “the other sex” in terms of reproduction, and will almost certainly never function in a reproductive capacity at all.

    So, what about that. Parents are notoriously loathe to consider a child’s possible future sex life. (There is a natural antipathy to thinking about that subject, which is probably a good thing.) A parent, even one who has endorsed transition, almost certainly won’t want to dwell too heavily on the fact that, when the child becomes a sexual adult, he or she will confront The Moment of Truth, probably multiple times over a lifetime, with a potential partner. Such an encounter or disclosure will be uncomfortable and embarrassing at best. It will be a liability, and a burden, and a worry for the person throughout his/her life. Moreover, the child will one day need to make clear to any potential permanent partner, that natural offspring will not be possible.

    When a child is young and living at home, in the protected and supported atmosphere of the family, it is easy not to think about such things. It is probably fairly easy to “assume them away,” or to simply not consider them because they are so uncomfortable to think about. A child’s possible sexual and reproductive future seem far, far away.

    It seems in virtually all the “triumphal trans” stories that we read, the narrative is focused almost entirely on what a relief and joy it is for the child to be living in his/her “true sex,” right here and now. How many times have we read, “X was unhappy and isolated, and now X is outgoing and fun!” The emphasis is on the change that (supposedly) makes things better today. But, there seems to be almost a willful blindness to the fact that the child will not always be little, and cute, and easy, and sunny. The transitioned child will grow up to be a very, very different sort of adult, and adulthood, as we know, lasts a whole lot longer than childhood.

    Liked by 13 people

    • Excellent point, worriedmom, the focus is so short-term. My college kid’s school psychologist said about my XX transman child, “He’s happy NOW, what is the problem?”. Ummm, lots of things, in fact.

      Liked by 8 people

      • The “study” most often pointed to by trans activists to justify pediatric transition is one by Kristina Olson at University of Washington. The studied group is socially transitioned children whose mental health is no worse than age-matched “cis” peers. There is no control group of children who were supported in their gender defiance but not socially transitioned.

        The period of study is short, the cohort is children who are clients at “affirmative” gender clinics and/or support groups. This immediate-gratification “data” is being used to justify the next steps: puberty blocking–and we know where that leads in 100% of cases. How will these youngsters feel as adults about lost fertility and/or impaired sexual function, along with all the other possible issues they’ll face (finding mates, constant visits to surgeons and endocrinologists, etc)? It’s like none of this matters. Only now now now.

        Liked by 7 people

  7. A number of trans-identified YouTubers (almost all of whom I’ve unsubscribed from since reaching peak trans) have said they really regret not banking sperm or eggs before undergoing surgery, or went off hormones due to fears of not being able to have kids. Young people shouldn’t be expected to definitively know what decisions they want to make about having kids. For years, I wanted eight kids, four of each, and when I was twelve through somewhere in my teens, my plan was to have them as a single mom by choice starting at age twenty. Even before I passed my most fertile years, I began thinking I might only want one child. So many other people have similar stories, wanting no kids but then deciding to have a family, or wanting a large family but deciding it’s more practical to only have a few. These transed children don’t have that kind of opportunity to make their own decisions and go through that kind of evolution of thinking about childbearing. Their parents and doctors made the decision for them.

    That “chestfeeding” graphic from La Leche League made me so angry! I’m particularly angry about that issue because a woman in several of my pro-science, skeptical groups recently used the terms “breastfeeding parents” and “pregnant people.” How can someone be science-minded and guided by the principles of skeptical inquiry about so many other things, yet obediently hop aboard the trans train without any critical examination?

    Liked by 11 people

  8. From a post on Mumsnet:

    ‘When my child was offered blockers I was told it was just to give us thinking time.

    I asked about the name of the drug and they waffled a bit and didn’t tell me.

    When I asked about the side effects I was told that there were a few but all were reversible except in very extreme and rare cases.

    I was discouraged from googling about it as there is so much misinformation on the internet that I may end up scaring myself.

    I had a huge list of questions with me but I was never told any of the downfalls, or that that path would likely encourage my child to transition when they may not have done without them, it was touted as some sort of miracle saviour drug that would stop my child feeling awful about their body, stop any thoughts of suicide or self harm, and we were told puberty would start as soon as the blockers stopped, if we did stop them.’

    The person who posted this is British. She was seeking help from the NHS for her severely dysphoric daughter.

    Liked by 10 people

  9. I think there is a weird prudishness that stops people discussing trans kids future health and sex lives. The puberty blockers are horrendous. Cross sex hormones will mess with your system and bring on all sorts of problems. You will become a life long clinical case that needs constant management.

    Our genitals are not made of play-doh. They are wondrous complex systems, sometimes exasperating.

    Are we too afraid of upsetting our kids by telling them the truth. Or exposing ourselves as hateful bigots to even see the truth?

    Putting kids on a path that will lead to atrophied genitals or a crude parody of the opposite sexes genitals is a sick joke. To do this before they have ever had sex or even started masturbating is a sadistic act of warped prudery.

    And the answer to having bits that don’t work, or are so fucked up you can’t bear for anyone to touch you? The HRC (Human Rights Campaign, a Trans Activist front) recommends getting into BDSM or mutual cutting as an alternative to all that squelchy, disgusting, genital based boring sex in this doc Purple sage has a great article on it here:

    Liked by 8 people

    • I agree. The BDSM suggestion is a horrific “answer” to the problem of debilitated, surgically constructed genitals. I’m aghast. HRC should be ashamed.

      Even when doctors and parents do attempt to have frank discussions on sex and masturbation with kids prior to blockers, cross-sex hormones or surgeries, I highly doubt most prepubertal kids have a clear idea as to what is being discussed. There’s no way young kids can make an informed decision on their future sex life when they don’t know how sex feels or what a sexual relationship entails. At nine or ten years old, I thought sex sounded like the grossest thing ever — I would have happily signed away any future involvement in it.

      The transkid rabbit hole just gets deeper and more disturbing with every revelation from the medical professionals who are profiting from it.

      Liked by 10 people

  10. I am furious about the cheer-leading being currently done by Transgender Advocates regarding children, teens and young adults. I have a huge problem with the expressed lack of concern over definite and possible negative effect of off-label drugs which are being prescribed for children, teens and young adults who are assessed to be uncomfortable with their gender role and/or gender nonconforming. These off label drugs are being prescribed NOT FOR THE PURPOSE THE DRUGS WERE INTENDED OR APPROVED FOR. I am also upset because surgeries such a mastectomies, hysterectomies, phalloplasties, vaginoplasities all have dangerous possible effects. And these surgeries are now being carried out on healthy young bodies.

    With the “transing” of children, teens and young adults, using these medications and, sometimes undertaking these dangerous surgeries, the medical and pharmaceutical community is definitely creating a cohort of experimental medical patients. My life experience and medical/nursing education and experience scream at me that this increasing trend in care and “treatment” for children, teen and young adult “feelings”, is incredibly WRONG!!! Children, teens and young adults, because of their scientifically-known incomplete brain development are vulnerable to making decisions or having decisions made for them which will have unknown, un-predicted consequences. They have limited ability to think and understand long term consequences.

    I have concerns, but I also do realize that once human brains become fully developed and people become fully functioning independent adults (usually by about mid-20s, but sometimes not until 30s or even older), it is up to them to make decisions about their bodies and lives. That being said, these adult people also need to be able to live with any consequences which result from the decisions they make. As adults, we all have this responsibility.

    I’ve added some links below to these off label medications, which are currently being prescribed to children, teens and young adults. I know that it’s a lot of reading. Please read these articles thoroughly and critically and please understand that if these medications are prescribed to children, teens and young adults, because of their “feelings”, this usage of these medications has NO POSITIVE LONG TERM STUDIES TO BACK UP THEIR SAFETY. And think hard about this fact.

    Here is FDA information about Lupron, as it is indicated for children:

    Click to access 020263s035lbl.pdf

    Here is FDA information about Lupron, as it is indicated for adult male bodies:

    Click to access 019010s037lbl.pdf

    **Note that Lupron is not approved by the FDA for use in children who are uncomfortable in their gender roles or are gender unconforming.

    Here is the FDA approved information for Testosterone:

    And a recent warning from the FDA about Testosterone:

    **Note that the FDA does not approve of Testosterone for use in female bodies.

    Here is FDA information about Estradiol (Estrogen oral):

    Click to access 081295s014,084499s042,084500s044lbl.pdf

    **Note that the FDA only approves Estradiol for use in men (male bodies) as treatment of advanced androgen-dependent carcinoma (cancer) of the prostate and only for palliation purposes ie end of life care.

    Liked by 10 people

    • I can’t really agree that adults all have this responsibility – neuroatypical adults may simply not have that capability, and may also not be able to understand the consequences of their decisions, and we know that many transpeople are on the autistic spectrum or have mental health issues.

      I have mental illness myself, and while there are issues with coercive abusive treatment of those with mental illness so there should be care about where the line falls, I absolutely need protecting from myself at times, so I’m not just saying that. I don’t believe anyone should be aided to self-harm, which is what this is.


  11. I’m very thankful for blog posts like this that expose the real impacts of pediatric transition. It seems obvious that doctors aren’t being as careful as they should be and I’m sickened by it all. Even though I’ve been reading about this subject for a couple of years now, it’s still shocking–the experimentation on children, the wide acceptance of it and the media’s silence.

    Liked by 10 people

  12. Well, it turns out that several studies have shown that a majority of trans men and trans women desire to have biological children of their own.

    You’re taking that statistic to mean “a majority of trans men wish to gestate a child in their uterus and a majority of trans women wish to inseminate another person” which I would argue is the opposite of true. If a survey asked me whether I’d want to have biological children of my own, I’d say yes, of course: I want to get pregnant and give birth. But that isn’t possible since I don’t have a uterus or ova, and probably isn’t ever going to be possible unless they develop some way to grow those organs with my stem cells and implant them into my body, so I mean, it’s not exactly a priority.

    Here, Olson-Kennedy and other commenters analyze the impact of surgeries on sexual function—but disagree on how much should be discussed with the kids themselves about their future orgasm potential after their genitalia have been surgically rejiggered.

    Olson-Kennedy is looking at this from a very cis-centric point of view, though: for many trans people (obviously not fully grown men who transition in adulthood, sometimes after fathering children… but most of the rest of us) the physical sensations of orgasm are extremely distressing and triggering, and the future “loss of orgasm potential” actually brings relief. Most trans people don’t touch their own natal genitals or want them to be touched by others—that’s kind of like, one of the main things that makes us trans. So again, I don’t see why this would be a priority for anyone except some kind of autogynephile or fetishist. (And they typically don’t transition in childhood anyway.)

    If you let these kids simply mature naturally–as their healthy bodies are desperately fighting to be allowed to do–they can preserve their fertility and decide whether they want to choose hormonal or surgical interventions when they reach adulthood, with mature judgment and reasoning powers.

    If you wouldn’t trust a 12 year old to make decisions affecting their life in the future, why would you trust an 18 year old? Or a 25 year old? Or whatever? Their mind could always change!! Might as well ban transition altogether!! Also restrict people from applying to high schools until they’re in their 20s, because that’s such an important decision that could shape your future irreversibly and shouldn’t be trusted to an adolescent.

    When someone’s forced to put off transition until 18 (or later) it can seriously impair their ability to lead a normal life in the future. For one, the damage caused by puberty is irreversible*, and unless they’re one of those rare people who naturally resembles the opposite sex already, they will not successfully ‘pass’ as the opposite sex. But an even more important aspect, tbh, is the social relationships and development that teenagers go through, the awkward teen romances, friendships and cliques, the practical experience of learning who to trust and who to avoid, how to navigate social situations, how to network, etc. The foundation for all of that is in adolescence, and is sex-differentiated. If someone goes through this before transitioning, the best-case scenario is that they will experience the sex-role socialisation that is incongruous with their gender after transition, and therefore never truly fit in among other men/women. The worst-case scenario is that they will feel nonexistent, isolate themselves and fall into depression or other mental illness, and miss out on this stage of development altogether, and never actually develop the necessary social skills to be an adult as a result.

    I’m sorry for intruding in here since I know people like me and my views aren’t welcome here. But I do find the fixation on genitals and reproduction coming from these practitioners to be… kind of creepy. I’d rather trans people not be seen as “deficient sperm carriers” or “unformed uterus havers”, and in fact would prefer it if they simply stopped talking about our reproductive capabilities until they have invented some way to actually change our sex. Until then, please just do the surgeries we’re paying you for and leave us alone. >_>

    * I guess one could counter-argue that for those who transition as teenagers and regret it later, the damage caused by their induced puberty is also irreversible. I would argue this is not a reason to avoid transitioning minors, but more of a reason for Karasic and Olson and Bowers and so on to put a lot less work into freezing children’s immature ova and a lot more work into finding ways to reverse—rather than simply mitigate—the effects of puberty, whether natural or induced.


    • As to the first part of your comment, no, the point about the studies which show that most trans men/women want to have biological kids isn’t about whether they gestate babies in uteruses: it’s about their gametes being viable. Kids who are sterilized before puberty don’t have viable gametes that can be frozen/banked. It’s that simple.

      Your comment about a 12-year-old being equivalent to an 18- or 25-year-old because anyone can change their minds shows a rather striking lack of knowledge about human brain development–particularly executive function, which is the seat of judgment, reasoning, awareness of future consequences, and impulse control. Sure, anyone can change their minds, but performing irreversible interventions on kids pretty much makes it impossible for them to change their minds later. And given that most gender dysphoric kids resolve it and grow up to be LG (at least, they used to, before this new zeal for earlier and earlier transition came into play), we’re talking about proactive anti-gay conversion therapy for so many of them. They’re denied the opportunity to experience puberty itself, which (in the past, before all this tampering) has allowed many young people to come to terms with themselves as sexual beings. These kids will never know whether they might have been happy post-adolescence, because they’ve already been turned into permanent medical patients and denied the very experience which might have helped them feel whole.

      And as to what you say about trans people and their feelings about their sexual function? You can only speak for yourself. But like the gender doctors who push ahead with their conviction that repurposing the genitals of children is a reasonable thing to do, you are evidently confident that your hatred of your own body and its natural sexual response is universally shared.

      Most of all, you miss the central point of this post: Tampering with the genitals, sexual function, and fertility of minors is taking away a fundamental human right that has heretofore been reserved to adults. There’s a reason why 12-year-olds can’t drink, vote, drive, get a tattoo or sign a contract. There’s a reason car rental companies don’t rent to anyone under age 25. There’s also a reason why irreversible medical interventions are in every other realm of medicine the last resort–especially for children. But in the Age of the Trans Child, sterilizing and reconfiguring the bodies of prepubertal children has become the treatment of first resort; and governments are working overtime to punish anyone who might hold the alternative view that there’s value in helping kids find peace in their very own skins.

      Liked by 8 people

    • Anomie, so even when these early intervention transkids grow up, after being fully medically treated to become the closest facsimile of the opposite sex (appearance-wise) that modern medicine can achieve, we can expect that as adults they are still going to be dysphoric to the point that they don’t want anyone to touch them and they don’t desire a satisfying adult sex life?

      Isn’t the point of all this medical intervention to relieve dysphoria? Why put CHILDREN through all these invasive, expensive, experimental, harmful treatments if it is expected that they will remain dysphoric throughout their adult lives? I thought relieving dysphoria was the sole reason that these treatments were even considered for children in the first place. I thought the purpose of all these barbaric treatments was to relieve dysphoria, thereby preventing suicide. Why are we putting kids through this if it is expected they will remain dysphoric as adults?

      Liked by 5 people

    • “If you wouldn’t trust a 12 year old to make decisions affecting their life in the future, why would you trust an 18 year old? Or a 25 year old? Or whatever? Their mind could always change!! Might as well ban transition altogether!!”

      This is a straw man argument and lousy one at that. Who in their right mind would trust the judgement of a 12 year old over a 25 year old? Not even other 12 year olds.

      Please explain to me why puberty is so horrifying? When did growing boobs or a deeper voice or excess body hair become as frightening as cancer? So much so that perfectly healthy children are actually being given chemotherapy drugs?

      Why is passing SO important that it must be acheived at the cost of stunted growth, sterility, brittle bones, urinary incontinence, cancer and side effects we may not even know about yet? As long as the mirror reflects someone other people see as acceptable it’s worth the risk, right? Not to me it isn’t.

      Liked by 6 people

      • I seriously doubt that the transed female children will pass so very well. One of the most obvious signs that a person is a MtT and not a real woman is the height.
        FtT are not so common where I live, but I expect the same would be the case for them; shortness would make it easy to spot them in a group of actual men.

        Even those female children who would continue to identify as trans after puberty won’t profit much, or at all, from puberty blockers. What use is male bone structure if the bones are brittle? You can’t exactly do much sports at all if your bones break every time you fall, so full male-type musculature won’t have much chance to develop.

        Liked by 1 person

    • “You’re taking that statistic to mean “a majority of trans men wish to gestate a child in their uterus and a majority of trans women wish to inseminate another person” which I would argue is the opposite of true. If a survey asked me whether I’d want to have biological children of my own, I’d say yes, of course: I want to get pregnant and give birth. But that isn’t possible since I don’t have a uterus or ova, and probably isn’t ever going to be possible unless they develop some way to grow those organs with my stem cells and implant them into my body, so I mean, it’s not exactly a priority.”

      If you only want to experience pregnancy and birth, but are not interested in, you know, having children, then it is perhaps for the best that you don’t.

      I would prefer inseminating someone and then chill until the baby is born. Sounds great, really. Unfortunately, since I am female, that is not an option. However, as I would like to have children, I would cope with pregnancy if the opportunity presented itself, and would certainly not want to be sterilized.

      The sheer amount of “man gives birth” news indicates that many FtTs chose to rather cope with the dysphoria that pregnancy and birth must cause them for a whopping 9 months (and recovery time afterwards) rather than not have children. I am sure the amount of MtT who want to have their own biological children, which needs not cause any dysphoria at all, since PiV is not needed, is much, much, much higher.

      Liked by 1 person

    • For one thing, I think opinions of people that have transitioned should be taken into account. However, only up until a certain point. Personal anecdotes vary & there’s a difference in experience between an adult who has transitioned & a child. Perhaps sex doesn’t matter to you, but that’s not common. That’s the whole point of the conversation.
      When it comes to having children, I suppose you could say it’s a trade off and worth it, but it’s way easier for an adult to decide than a 12 yr old. No matter what anyone says, there’s no way to predict that.
      Age matters very much. Like others have said, there’s a reason we don’t allow minors to make certain choices. They don’t understand the full consequences. I don’t know one adult who knew what they wanted to do with their life at 12. Imagine asking a 12 yr old to pick a career for the rest of their lives, how about a spouse? We also have age of consent for sex for a good reason. Altering their body goes beyond just looks. Like others said, it’s a life time commitment to medical treatment, becoming sterile, long term side effects…. etc. Too young, and you can’t even freeze their sperm/eggs. It’s nothing like going to HS. The reason people are discussing genitals is b/c unfortunately that’s what it’s about. Don’t even get me started on people relying on surrogates, because I’m conflicted on how I feel about women’s bodies being used / counted on – as an incubator. (Not going to debate that now)
      Every time things like this are discussed, I hear people that are for early transition contradict the information. “Genitals don’t matter” yet they obviously do, or people wouldn’t have surgery. “Puberty is traumatizing & irreversible” so is multiple surgeries & sterilization. You talk about adolescence experiences being a problem, but tbh, if they are transitioning that young, they are going to a whole other set of concerns going through that. (Try explaining dilating to a young teen)
      A big part of the focus always puts passing first. Don’t think I’m not understanding – People can be cruel & i get that it’s distressing your body doesn’t reflect “who you are”… but when there’s serious medical/ health consequences at stake, that’s like saying looks are above all else. I’ve got the feeling many times that it goes even beyond that – that *good* looks are important. Puberty might make a trans girl tall, a trans boy have breasts, & undesirable sex features. However, that’s what cosmetic surgery is for, so it can wait. Advancements are made every day. It seems like people forget that there’s naturally hairy women, tall women, men with no muscle tone, yet that’s the hand their dealt. I’m sure my gf in HS didn’t want to be 6 feet tall & built “big”, but she was. Some “cis” women have necks that have prominent Adams apples. So if taking dangerous drugs is to prevent say a trans girl from getting certain fearures, then it’s denying that there’s plenty of women that can look that way, and that the aim is to be an ATTRACTIVE man/woman above all. With the goal is to get rights and be treated with respect in society, I say that should be the main focus so that whether they pass perfectly or not, it won’t matter b/c they will be accepted.
      I’m glad hormones & surgery make some people feel better, but I’ve often pondered what would happen if that wasn’t provided anymore? What about in the past? This is kind of new territory, even for adults. There may have always been transgender individuals, but they didn’t have these things available. I’m assuming depression & suicide, which I’ve heard from plenty of trans gendered people – but they contribute that to societies not accepting them. So again, maybe that’s the main key?


  13. Here’s an article that popped up today about the highly variable and often extremely disappointing results experienced by women who’ve had double mastectomies as a cancer preventative followed by reconstruction:

    The article points out a number of medical problems that women can undergo after mastectomy (persistent pain syndrome among them) and also that doctors tend to “over promise and under deliver” in terms of what women can expect from their new breasts. I recall that one of the “pediatric gender specialists” was recently quoted as blithely reassuring parents that, even if their daughter receives a double mastectomy “in error,” “the breasts can always be reconstructed.”

    Not so much, apparently – who ever would have thought?

    Liked by 6 people

  14. Pingback: Things I wish my therapist had said while I was pursuing medical transition


  16. Pingback: A ‘transgender’ kindergartner registered at my kids’ school. That’s when the madness began. - UsafirstInfo

  17. Pingback: “I just gave him the language”: Top gender doc uses pop tart analogy to persuade 8-year-old girl she’s really a boy | 4thWaveNow

  18. Pingback: Nonbinary patient sues Utah MD who removed both ovaries | 4thWaveNow

  19. As an endometriosis sufferer who’s all too familiar with the “puberty blocking drug” Lupron, I’m aghast that they give this to children in any capacity, let alone on a continued basis. It was originally marketed as a prostate cancer drug that’s now being used off-label to shut down the reproductive system in severe cases of disease such as fibroids & endometriosis, and the side effects are as hideous as any other chemotherapy agent. Patients have experienced osteoporosis, hair loss, severe cognitive & mood dysfunction (i.e. suicidal depression & anxiety), fibromyalgia, loss of vision, migraine & thyroid enlargement…some of which is permanent. Let that sink in.

    And that’s in healthy adults with fully-formed brains & reproductive systems. Anyone who claims this drug is safe for kids is a liar. There are already petitions to get it taken off the market by patients–male & female alike–who feel the drug has robbed them of their life & health.

    Counseling, breast binders & other reversible options should be available to kids who want them, but there’s no way a 12-year-old can make a sound decision about their reproductive or sexual future with no life experience to base it on. Their brains are simply not developed enough to do so. We don’t let kids that young drive cars, drink alcohol, serve in the military, have sex with adults or vote, but we’re claiming they’re old enough to predict what they’ll want 15+ years in the future?


  20. Pingback: Appendix | Jane Clare Jones

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