US conversion therapy laws: Conflating homophobia with helping gender-defiant kids feel whole

One of the many unfortunate consequences of the marriage of transgenderism with the lesbian/gay movement is the wholesale acceptance that “conversion” therapy (also referred to as “reparative” therapy)—rightly condemned as coercive attempts to change a person’s sexual orientation—is equivalent to helping a child or teen feel at home with his or her body.

Why shouldn’t attempts to change “gender identity” be seen as identical to efforts to convince lesbian and gay people to abandon their homosexuality?

Because they are actually polar opposites. Anti-gay conversion therapy tells a healthy human being that they are not ok as they are, in the body they have, with the sexual feelings they have for other humans.  But therapy aimed at helping a young person accept and reconcile with their healthy,  evolution-molded body, as well as their gender nonconformity, actually encourages wholeness and the integration of body and mind.

In an Orwellian twist, the trans activists have hoodwinked the public into believing that these two approaches are one and the same, even though pro-trans “affirmative therapy” leads a young person not only to reject themselves as they are, but to start down a path which can lead to multiple surgeries, lifelong drug injections, and irreversible sterilization—with all the risks and hazards associated with being a permanent medical patient.

lady justice small

Never before in recorded history has every sector of society—political leaders, journalists, medical doctors, psychotherapists, and the legal system—enthusiastically promoted the mutilation, drugging, and sterilization of children’s healthy bodies. Never before have adults conspired to encourage a child in the warped notion that their very own body is a hated, alien monstrosity to be recoiled from in utter disgust.

What’s more, a side effect of this pediatric transition propaganda is the proactive conversion of same-sex attracted young people into surgically and hormonally manufactured heterosexuals. It has been well known for decades that the vast majority of “gender dysphoric” young people resolve those feelings and grow up to be gay and lesbian. We not only have peer reviewed research to back up that assertion. We have the anecdotal life experiences of gay and lesbian adults.  And not only that: Media story after media story reports about the trans men who started off as young lesbians—with no comment or question from the journalists about what happened to that former lesbian identity. And many of these young trans men start testosterone and even have “top surgery” before the typical age when women realize and accept their lesbian orientation—on average, from age 19-early 20s.

That anyone has unthinkingly accepted the false equivalence that anti-gay/lesbian conversion therapy is the same as helping a child avoid self hatred is absurd. That our legal system, from the President of the United States on down, is promulgating this fiction is something I predict will eventually go down in the history books as one of the greatest examples of medical malpractice, homophobia, and mass delusion ever perpetrated by the human race.

So just where do we stand in the United States vis-à-vis “conversion” therapy laws, as they apply to “gender identity”?

Before I provide summaries of existing US legislation, let’s take a peek behind the curtain to see which organizations are behind the conflation of LGB with T in the legislative arena.

Powerful, well-funded activist groups often write “model legislation” that is then cloned and heavily lobbied for in US state legislatures. Two of the pressure groups involved in the conversion therapy effort are the Human Rights Campaign, a major player in trans activism, and the absurdly named National Center for Lesbian Rights (NCLR). A recent post on 4thWaveNow highlighted the role of NCLR in helping to push trans activist-crafted policy in US public schools. NCLR was also an original signatory to a damaging boycott-petition targeting the now-defunct Michigan Women’s Music Festival (a private event held for 40 years on private land whose only crime was politely requesting that only biological women attend).

So once again, we find NCLR involved in actually harming young same-sex attracted girls by working to prevent concerned clinicians from helping these girls come to terms with their lesbianism. Could it be any more Orwellian?

As you’ll no doubt notice in the excerpts from US state laws below, the wording of the “model legislation” peddled by the NCLR and HRC is strikingly similar to that in the actual conversion therapy laws on the books. Staff attorneys at NCLR and HRC know what they’re doing. Reading the profile for NCLR staff attorney Samantha Ames (the attorney listed as contact person in the model bill PDF), it’s clear her social justice heart is in the right place. But what will it take for women like Ames to have an epiphany: that the trans’ing of young same-sex attracted girls is actually homophobic conversion therapy perpetrated on minors who are being denied the possibility to even find out if they could enjoy a life free of medical intervention as happy lesbians?

So far, four states, the District of Columbia, and the city of Cincinnati, Ohio have passed legislation that has tacked “gender identity” onto the definition of what constitutes conversion therapy. Summaries/excerpts from the pertinent sections of the laws are below, with links to the full legislation for each.

While the wording is vague and undefined—with the terms “transgender,” “gender expression,” “gender identity” and the like seemingly hastily appended to the language about sexual orientation—we should all be asking what, exactly, is meant by conversion therapy in regards to gender identity.

In a recent guest post by a psychotherapist whose preteen daughter has been questioning her gender identity, a lively discussion ensued in the comments regarding what is and isn’t conversion therapy. Does it mean (as more and more seems to be the case, in my own personal experience and in that of many other parents who contribute to 4thWaveNow) that a therapist dare not even ask why? when a young client announces they are transgender? Is it now verboten to explore a child’s mental health history, social media habits, or other possible contributing factors? What about social contagion? And what about the experiences and opinions of the child’s parents? If a mother says her daughter showed no signs until a month ago of any discomfort with her body, is the parent simply to be dismissed as a transphobe in need of reeducation (a type of conversion therapy in itself)?

The signs are not good, but ethical therapists owe it to themselves—and above all, their young clients—not to place anyone at unnecessary risk of the irreversible changes that will be induced by hormones and surgical treatments.

As grim as it seems right now, there is a glimmer of hope. The conflation of anti-gay reparative therapy with efforts to help children feel comfortable in their own skin is something new, and the legislation has yet to be tested in courts of law by intrepid lawyers who know better. The language in the bills is vague and open to challenge and judicial interpretation. There is a window of opportunity, for clinicians as well as for lawyers.

Note/caveat: Regular readers of this blog know that everyone at 4thWaveNow strongly supports “gender nonconformity” and rejects the enforcement and policing of stereotyped “feminine” or “masculine” behaviors or activities. To the extent that these laws protect young people from attempts to enforce such stereotypes, we applaud them. The problem is that gender identity and gender expression, while actually two very different things, are blurred and undefined in the legislation. So, for example, support for “gender expression” could protect a girl who wants a short haircut and “boys'” clothes; but how very harmful it would be to prohibit therapy that helps that same gender-defiant girl realize she is still 100% female, with a body perfect just as it is, even as she rejects gender stereotypes.

Thanks to overwhelmed for summaries and research assistance on this US legislation. The specific language varies somewhat from state-to-state, and it’s worth a close reading to parse the actual intent of each law. Click the name of each bill to access full text for the legislation.



SB-1172 Sexual orientation change efforts

“California has a compelling interest in protecting the physical and psychological well-being of minors, including lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender youth, and in protecting its minors against exposure to serious harms caused by sexual orientation change efforts.”

(b) (1) “Sexual orientation change efforts” means any practices by mental health providers that seek to change an individual’s sexual orientation. This includes efforts to change behaviors or gender expressions, or to eliminate or reduce sexual or romantic attractions or feelings toward individuals of the same sex.

(2) “Sexual orientation change efforts” does not include psychotherapies that: (A) provide acceptance, support, and understanding of clients or the facilitation of clients’ coping, social support, and identity exploration and development, including sexual orientation-neutral interventions to prevent or address unlawful conduct or unsafe sexual practices; and (B) do not seek to change sexual orientation.


Under no circumstances shall a mental health provider engage in sexual orientation change efforts with a patient under 18 years of age.


Any sexual orientation change efforts attempted on a patient under 18 years of age by a mental health provider shall be considered unprofessional conduct and shall subject a mental health provider to discipline by the licensing entity for that mental health provider.


House Bill 217: Youth Mental Health Protection Act.

 “Sexual orientation change efforts” or “conversion therapy” means any practices or treatments that seek to change an individual’s sexual orientation, as defined by subsection (o-1) of Section 1-103 of the Illinois Human Rights Act, including efforts to change behaviors or gender expressions or to eliminate or reduce sexual or romantic attractions or feelings towards individuals of the same sex. “Sexual orientation change efforts” or “conversion therapy” does not include counseling or mental health services that provide acceptance, support, and understanding of a person without seeking to change sexual orientation or mental health services that facilitate a person’s coping, social support, and gender identity exploration and development, including sexual orientation neutral interventions to prevent or address unlawful conduct or unsafe sexual practices, without seeking to change sexual orientation.

New Jersey

Sexual Orientation Change Efforts

 b.    As used in this section, “sexual orientation change efforts” means the practice of seeking to change a person’s sexual orientation, including, but not limited to, efforts to change behaviors, gender identity, or gender expressions, or to reduce or eliminate sexual or romantic attractions or feelings toward a person of the same gender; except that sexual orientation change efforts shall not include counseling for a person seeking to transition from one gender to another, or counseling that:

(1)   provides acceptance, support, and understanding of a person or facilitates a person’s coping, social support, and identity exploration and development, including sexual orientation-neutral interventions to prevent or address unlawful conduct or unsafe sexual practices; and

(2)   does not seek to change sexual orientation.


House bill 2307

 A mental health care or social health professional may not practice conversion therapy if the recipient of the conversion therapy is under 18 years of age. (2) As used in this section: (a)(A) “Conversion therapy” means providing professional services for the purpose of attempting to change a person’s sexual orientation or gender identity, including attempting to change behaviors or expressions of self or to reduce sexual or romantic attractions or feelings toward individuals of the same gender. (B) “Conversion therapy” does not mean: (i) Counseling that assists a client who is seeking to undergo a gender transition or who is in the process of undergoing a gender transition; or (ii) Counseling that provides a client with acceptance, support and understanding, or counseling that facilitates a client’s coping, social support and identity exploration or development, including counseling in the form of sexual orientation-neutral or gender identity-neutral interventions provided for the purpose of preventing or addressing unlawful conduct or unsafe sexual practices, as long as the counseling is not provided for the purpose of attempting to change the client’s sexual orientation or gender identity.

 Washington, DC

Amendment  to Mental Health Service Delivery Reform Act of 2001

“Sexual orientation change efforts” means a practice by a provider that seeks to change a consumer’s sexual orientation, including efforts to change behaviors, gender identity or expression, or to reduce or eliminate sexual or romantic attractions or feelings toward a person of the same sex or gender; provided, that the term “sexual orientation change efforts” shall not include counseling for a consumer seeking to transition from one gender to another, or counseling that provides acceptance, support, and understanding of a consumer or facilitates a consumer’s coping, social support, and identity exploration and development, including sexual orientation-neutral interventions to prevent or address unlawful conduct or unsafe sexual practices in a manner that does not seek to change a consumer’s sexual orientation.”. (b) A new section 214a is added to read as follows: “Sec. 214a. Prohibition on sexual orientation change efforts for minors.

 Cincinnati, OH

Sexual Orientation or Gender Identity Change Efforts

Prohibits within the geographical boundary of Cincinnati, Ohio, “sexual orientation or gender identity change efforts,” commonly known as conversion therapy, by mental health professionals.  The prohibited therapy is defined as:

conversion therapy, reparative therapy or any other practices by mental health professionals that seek to change an individual’s sexual orientation or to change gender identity to a gender other than that with which the individual personally identifies, including efforts to change behaviors or gender expressions, or to eliminate or reduce sexual or romantic attractions or feelings toward individuals of the same sex.

Excluded from this definition

psychotherapies that provide acceptance, support, and identity exploration and development, including sexual orientation-neutral interventions to prevent or address unlawful conduct or unsafe sexual practices, and psychotherapies that do not seek to change sexual orientation or to change gender identity to a gender other than that with which the individual personally identifies.

The fine for violating the ordinance is $200 per occurrence.  Each day that a violation occurs constitutes a separate violation.


45 thoughts on “US conversion therapy laws: Conflating homophobia with helping gender-defiant kids feel whole

  1. I have to wonder if conflating trans with gay/lesbian rights was perhaps a very intentional tactical move. Where gay people want to be accepted by society as they are – instead of being cajoled, counseled or forced by law to live a life different from what they were born as, trans people are basically demanding that society not only provide the means for trans people to live their “feelz” but that society bend over backwards to hide any facts that might interfere with “living the feelz”.

    Where “conversion” therapy aimed at gays & lesbians was designed to convince them to turn their backs on their lived physical reality, what the trans agenda wants outlawed is therapy that would try to convince “trans” individuals to face the fact of physical reality that sex cannot be changed with currently available scientific medicine.

    My gay friends, who live happy, quiet, nonpolitical lives, are not happy with the way the trans agenda has been forcing so many unreasonable demands on our society.

    Liked by 9 people

    • It is a difficult situation. I have friends who identify as transgender. I do feel that we have different needs and that we are a part of two very different “communities”.

      I support transgender rights. I also support the right of the general public and I support the right of autonomy for the LGB.

      I did not sign the Drop the “T” petition but I feel that it is time for the transgender community to negotiate with the LGB community to create ways that we can define ourselves with clear boundaries so that we may live peacefully as “neighbors”. We are clearly not under the same roof on many issues. I feel that it is time to dissolve the “marriage” and I hope that we can do so amicably in such a way that we can remain friends.

      I don’t like that the LBG is tacked onto things like “bathroom” rights. Gay and Lesbian people want to be able to use the bathroom that matches their sex (not their outfits – “gender” expression). I would like to see the LGB be respected for their right to autonomy.

      Liked by 4 people

      • “A difficult situation”?

        Really? Could that possibly be because the “trans” agenda is basically a demand that society enshrine into law “feelz” over actual physical reality? And even if this is reassuring to a minute percentage of the population and their buddies, why should all citizens be forced by law to go along?

        Seriously – someone like “Cait” Jenner can spend millions of dollars for “gender” surgeries (facial changes, breast implants) & a “female” wardrobe (including freaking Tiaras, as if he’s not only a “female” but 10 years old) but keep his junk *and* be declared “Woman of the Year” by Glamor magazine; laws are already on the books in some jurisdictions permitting anyone with a penis who claims to have the “feelz” can enter spaces where humans are uniquely vulnerable (partly/fully undressed in restrooms & locker rooms, sleeping in homeless or domestic violence shelters), which has already resulted in activities that would be criminal if not for the claimed “feelz”. Why should society be shamed and called haters in service of demands like these?

        But even if society *does* capitulate and let those who claim sex is in the brain, not a physical fact – and not only a physical fact for our species, but for almost every species of animal and plant on the planet (not to mention some microbes), the physical facts will continue to be physical facts. Using extremely rare birth defects involving sex organs &/or secondary sex characteristics to claim there’s a “gender spectrum” is another way the “trans” agenda demands society ignore physical fact. Should the existence of thalidomide babies be used as evidence that the number of human limbs is a “spectrum” allowing people to demand doctors to remove healthy limbs? And should we begin to install fur on those who claim to be “trans-species”?

        I don’t believe there should be “trans” rights. There should be citizen’s rights. If someone wants to wear a dress to work, they should not lose their job or housing or right to vote or right to free speech or any other right of any citizen for wearing a dress – but neither should wearing a dress and claiming to have certain “feelz” should not make that individual immune for being fired or evicted for violating their employment contract or lease.

        But the “trans” rights being demanded seem to go far beyond reminding the larger society that even rare and unpopular opinions and lifestyles are not justification for stripping a citizen of rights, and demanding new “trans” rights be created and that anyone who isn’t willing to rush these new “rights” into legislation is a “hater”.

        Another example of trying to make society erase physical reality is changing of birth certificates to reflect a different gender. The mechanisms for legal name change that already exist create a paper trail to connect the current adult name to the person in year xxxx, named at birth Xxxx, birth parents’ names, etc. When someone marries or applies for and receives a legal name change, that person’s birth certificate name is not changed to the “new” name. To me, this demand to change history displays a disingenuous attitude about reality, which should not be encouraged in any citizen.

        P.S. If Jenner felt like a female since early in life, why is the name chosen not something that was popular in that time period such as Kathy or Heather but “Caitlin” a name popular among the current generation of grade school students?

        Liked by 5 people

      • In response to Trish – I can think of a few public figures in the gay and lesbian community that I am certainly not proud to be associated with – in fact, there are elements of “gay culture” that I do not support at all. Like the “leather scene” uh – not for me.

        I try to remember that people who identify as transgender are as worthy of respect and equality as I am. I can respectfully disagree and I can even actively oppose the political aspects that I am not in agreement with without making generalizations about the entire transgender community.

        The LGB and the T don’t need to take sides as enemies. We can find ways to co-exist and even ways to work together on projects that we can mutually agree upon – even if we seek autonomy.

        It is also important not make enemies of people in the LGB who support the rights of the T or who hold differing perspectives than our own.

        There are enough people who hate the T and enough people who hate the LGB … let’s not rule the fire.

        We are not enemies – I am not going to throw stones when I can use my hands to do better work.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Juniper,
        I don’t want you to continue under the impression that you seem to have that you and I are “on the same side”.

        I am on the side of governments protecting the rights of each citizen equally. I am on the side of our society facing physical reality for what it is, and if there’s a conflict between what is physical reality and what someone feels, wishes or hopes, that policies based on actual physical reality would supersede feelz, wishes & hopes.

        The T side wants to outlaw saying what is physical reality about biological sex because it hurts their “feelz”. While I don’t think anyone should be fired, jailed or evicted for wearing opposite-sex clothes or using an opposite-sex name, I *really* don’t think someone should be fired, jailed, evicted – or hounded on the internet – for saying there are only 2 biological sexes.

        Liked by 2 people

  2. To quote 4thwavenow: “That our legal system, from the President of the United States on down, is promulgating this fiction is something I predict will eventually go down in the history books as one of the greatest examples of medical malpractice, homophobia, and mass delusion ever perpetrated by the human race”.

    I agree. It troubles me to bear witness to all of this. I am very concerned for young people who have the courage to challenge gender stereotypes as they risk their lives not only because of homophobia but now due to that fact that many will undoubtedly become the targets of what equates to institutionalized sexism, mandated gender conformity and government sanctioned conversion therapy (when “treatments” are applied to young people who are same-sex attracted or any other [non-transgender] youth who habitually rejects social norms regarding gender expression).

    Transgender activists are very emphatic in defining a clear distinction between “sexual orientation” and “gender identity”. Yet, they simultaneously show no hesitation in continuing to superimpose their agenda with LGB needs. The transgender activists fail to ask for specific legistlation that defines their needs and their own unique interpretation of what constitutes their definition of “conversion therapy”.

    The LGB must certainly wish to guarantee clear provisions to protect same-sex attracted youths from misdiagnosis and medical negligence but that the LGB seems unable to gain autonomy due to what has become a very unhealthy “marriage” with the T.

    Failing to address the needs of homosexuals separately from the contrasting (and often incompatible) needs of the transgender community creates the undeniable potential for gay and lesbian youths who are “gender non-conforming” to become inappropriately targeted for “medical treatments”. Medical interventions should be reserved specifically for the treatment of “transgendersim”.

    The result, as you pointed out, is government sanctioned “conversion therapy” that will inevitably target a good percentage of healthy, pre-sexually active LGB individuals. it will also undoubtedly affect some heterosexual children who simply do not fit gender stereotypes.

    Already, we have documented accounts from “desisters” or “de-transioners” who deeply regret “transition”. It is clear that there have been numerous cases of medical negligence that have resulted in devastating effects on these patients’ health and quality of life.

    The risks are high and it is apparent that patients need protection but where is the solidarity from the T to protect LGB youth from medical negligence?

    Transgender activists remain true to form and are looking out for themselves – just as they have in the past. Remember when transgender individuals gained the right to marry by legally transitioning while the LGB continued to be denied equality? Or when transmen accepted male privilege without concern for women? Or when transwomen insisted on violating the right of women to peacefully assemble with the women with whom they best identified – just once a year, on private land, at the only event of its kind in the U.S.?

    The transgender activists again, show no concern that the LBG could be severely negatively impacted. The laws are written in such a way that they fail to define clear boundaries to protect same-sex attracted youths. Two sets of laws could have been drafted and passed simultaneously to protect each sub-community but instead, LGB rights to protection are sacrificed to yield to the T.

    These laws cast such a wide net that any child could become tangled up as by-catch left to die.

    Liked by 4 people

    • I agree. The “T” movement has proven itself to be selfish and insatiable, with little to no concern about the rights of the LGB or heterosexuals. When will this come to a head?

      Liked by 4 people

      • Also, the” T” movement has been really awful in their use of intersex people with rare birth defects related to biological sex/secondary sex characteristics and organizations created to help such individuals and their families. The “T” movement has used the existence of these people and their organizations as to push an agenda that demands that society and all its citizens accept as fact things that are physically not true.

        Liked by 5 people

  3. There is a federal bill that was introduced in May 2015 by Representative Ted Lieu (California): Therapeutic Fraud Prevention Act

    Looks like it got stuck in committee, but here is a story about it:

    Such a brave new world. School counselors and other licensed therapists who wish to caution their students/clients are being put in a difficult choice professionally. Who might take them to court….malpractice from all sides? the laws are poorly written, at best, when it comes to transgender issues and parental rights to protect their children from medical procedures (hormones, etc.).

    Many parents and family members of gender-questioning youth truly do want a therapist’s help for their loved one, someone unbiased who can explain to them the downsides of their self-diagnosis as transgender…aspects they may be too impulsive to have thoroughly explored and vetted. A life lived essentially faking your way through our binary society will surely be full of stress and anxiety; taking hormones for the rest of your life; expensive not-necessarily-successful surgeries to feel like you’ve truly transitioned; the pain and confusion suffered by siblings and parents, even leading to possible severed relationships.

    Liked by 5 people

  4. This is the kind of article that makes a difference. After reading this blog for a while, I posted for my first time on the “Tumblr snags another girl, but her therapist-mom knows a thing or two about social contagion”, so rather than repeat my points, please check for my comments there.

    I strongly believe that these laws would not prohibit a therapy that is productive, supportive and clinically sound. As a therapist, I would never tell someone I disagree with the way they see themselves, but I would openly discuss the multiple sources from which we construct identity, including the developmental perspective of adolescence, in order to foster greater self understanding and positive choices. This approach would leave no worry about getting fined for trying to change someone’s identity. That’s very different than following a protocol designed by trans activists in which a parent or minor are told the minor is transgender and a certain treatment model is necessary (with the fear of suicide sometimes added in to increase parental distress and compliance). I see no way that these laws would disallow explaining to minors and parents about identity formation and brain development that occurs during adolescence and young adulthood. I don’t know why any experienced. independent therapist would be afraid to practice the way they normally would under these laws. I actually think the practitioners promoting trans might be more likely to get into a sticky place as they really are working to change gender identity for children.

    As I stated before, I have no doubt many of you have found therapists who are less experienced, or working in agency or hospital settings where they must follow protocols of that institution, or just, sadly, mediocre or even incompetent. I don’t have answers for many of the desperate comments I received after my other posts. I hope you will discover that there are other therapists who have ethical and clinical standards which will give you and your children a chance to sort out what is really going on in terms of individual mental health issues, social contagion and family dynamics. They are not the gender therapists, they are not likely affiliated with the hospitals or agencies. They may not be on your insurance panel. They are more likely to have 15+ years experience as a generalist in the field of mental health, and are more likely to establish a respectful relationship with parents, be comfortable with medication as an adjunct for disorders or mood and attention – but only after a good assessment – and be willing to understand a child as a developing person who will be experiencing many changes through young adulthood. Your interview of therapists, before you decide your child should meet them, is crucial.

    I am a mom concerned about my 13 year old daughter. I am a therapist with 30 years experience, with a small private practice. I am here as a member of this community. Frankly, I felt overwhelmed by responses I got to what I could contribute, because there are many needs neither I or other therapists also reading this blog can fulfill. I can say that I believe these laws do not dictate any changes in good clinical practice and that no therapist should be afraid. I hope sharing this analysis has been helpful. I think a legal read on these laws might help to calm those fears. There are lawyers who specialize in advising mental health practitioners on law and regulations that can be consulted in each of these states. If a law with similar wording is proposed in my state, I will consult a lawyer well versed in mental health issues who I have consulted in the past. If therapists in this community are working in the 4 states or DC, an action step might be to consult with a lawyer in their state, and even to get that lawyer on board to represent them should there be any future action for malpractice or licensing board complaints. I am planning to write a response to the APA guidelines and would be happy to have other therapists, especially psychologists, who might like to collaborate on a joint response or a series of individual responses. Maybe 4th wave can help to connect us. Other therapists might choose to network with their colleagues to challenge the gender therapy protocols, review the literature for alternative perspectives and therapy approaches, speak out in their professional organizations, create a talk on gender critical clinical approaches to mental health training programs, or market their services to parents (as a parent in the 4th wave community has suggested).

    I think a strong alliance would be composed of parents, therapists, detransitioners, LGB community who are not in agreement with the transagenda, and gender nonconforming supporters. There are many things we each can do. I am hoping that 4th wave’s initiative with transgender trend will begin to help build an advocacy group, to take this supportive community to the next step, to keep us updated on laws that may be in our state legislatures and send out alerts, to post sample letters, maybe to use online forums like, to meet with legislators, to write articles (which may just involve polishing up blog posts) or letters to print media, to attempt to get interviews on radio and tv. We may find “strange bedfellows” with conservative groups who seem to be the only organized and somewhat moneyed opposition to this trend. Parents in the midst of this painful and scary experience will have the greatest motivation to become activists.

    I would also hope that the conversations here can be supportive of whatever our contributions are to other members of the community. I respect 4th wave’s bravery and dedication to keeping this blog active and relevant.

    Liked by 3 people

    • “Sexual orientation change efforts” means a practice by a provider that seeks to change a consumer’s sexual orientation, including efforts to change behaviors, gender identity or expression, or to reduce or eliminate sexual or romantic attractions or feelings toward a person of the same sex or gender; provided, that the term “sexual orientation change efforts” shall not include counseling for a consumer seeking to transition from one gender to another, or counseling that provides acceptance, support, and understanding of a consumer or facilitates a consumer’s coping, social support, and identity exploration and development, including sexual orientation-neutral interventions to prevent or address unlawful conduct or unsafe sexual practices in a manner that does not seek to change a consumer’s sexual orientation.”. (b) A new section 214a is added to read as follows: “Sec. 214a. Prohibition on sexual orientation change efforts for minors.

      This last part uses me to see the potential to add an amendment:

      including sexual orientation-neutral interventions to prevent or address unlawful conduct or unsafe sexual practices in a manner that does not seek to change a consumer’s sexual orientation.”

      I wonder if it would be possible to add:

      Including gender identity-neutral interventions to prevent the exploitation of a minor or to address concerns of medical negligence in a manner that does not seek to change a patient’s gender identity.

      With this type of amendment, we could require a period of mental health support and clinical observation to help support the development of coping skills and to develop emotional resiliency. Ongoing evaluations would be a part of the treatment process and very clear criteria would need to met before any minor could be subjected to treatment with hormone blockers, surgery or hormones.

      Setting clinically ethical parameters would help to ensure that every child is receiving the care that is most appropriate for that child. If a child seems to be doing well with “social transition” and is not showing signs of distress regarding gender/body dysphoria, a minor may be able to wait on invasive treatments until they are able to make decisions independently in adulthood (and they may choose to avoid medical interventions and continue to identify as transgender).

      Many transgender people retain their sexual anatomy and some people who identify as transgender do not take synthetic hormones.

      Providing quality mental health support to cultivate non-gender related life skills may help minors to better manage interpersonal difficulties, gain confidence, and develop healthy social networks.

      This approach would help the individual regardless of what path they chose. Providing this type of support would also help to ensure that LGB or other gender non-conforming youths were not mistaken as transgender as the youth would be emotionally supported to be themselves with no judgement and no pressure to conform or to convert. There would be no “time-line” no “right” or “wrong” way to express gender … simply acceptance, emotional support and guidance to strengthen interpersonal living skills.

      This seems to be the approach that is taken with “Pink Boys” and with many of the parents here. They love their kids, they support them and they protect them from exploitation by allowing them the time to explore without pressure.


  5. Perhaps an amendment could be added to legislation to read something like this:

    Including gender identity-neutral interventions to prevent the exploitation of a minor and to address concerns of medical negligence or unnecessary medical interventions in a manner that does not seek to change a patient’s gender identity.

    Liked by 1 person

  6. Starrymessenger, thanks for you clarity and suggestions on the way forward. I agree that part of the problem is that many people in this situation seek out “gender therapists.” I looked that term up to figure out what it means and found gender therapist who defined herself as a “therapist who helps people go through a transition.” On the other hand, I have colleagues who I am pretty sure would naively jump on the train just because the affirmation drum beat is so loud.

    I wanted to mention that this month’s Psychotherapy Networker is focusing on trans youth issues, and the tone of each article is uncritically celebratory — lots of mentions of “courage,” and “bravery.” You may need a subscription or at least an account to comment, but I have so far.

    Liked by 1 person

    • It is unfortunate there are so many gender therapists/specialists (I just googled and was appalled by the sheer number). I’m sure many parents (unaware of all of the information from 4thWaveNow) would feel they should send their gender-confused child to someone knowledgeable in their field. Just as they would do if their son or daughter was diagnosed with a rare disease.

      I also think, based on my own experience, that there are many therapists that feel uncomfortable taking on a teenager who feels transgender. This may leave the parent with fewer options.

      Liked by 3 people

    • Additionally, many general therapists refer clients to “gender specialists” feeling that to support a person who is “gender questioning” or exploring their “gender identity” is out of their scope of practice or that perhaps working with such a patient could open them up to risks of litigation should they be accused of saying the wrong thing. For whatever reason, many therapists may refer their client to a “gender specialist” not realizing what this entails (as such “specialists” are generally geared and focused toward supporting “medical transition”).

      It is true that a young person is likely to first tell a college therapist and again, the college therapist may feel as if their hands are tied. The client may present as a “lesbian” yet express feeling of gender confusion but the therapist may not be sure how to walk the line … that tightrope … between support for exploration and what can be labeled as “conversion therapy” if one is not fully affirming of any one direction or leaning toward “transgender” territory.

      The possibility of slipping into “leading questions” is ever present as well. Imagine a a young lesbian says something like “sometimes, I feel more like a boy than a girl” the therapist asks “how does that feel?” the client shrugs “I just want to be treated the way the guys get treated and do the things that guys do and I like guy clothes and I want to buzz my hair” … It would be easy for the therapist to ask “Is anything keeping you from choosing the clothes you like or cutting you hair” The student responds “Well, I would look just like a guy but I would have this stupid girl name” it would be so easy for the therapist to ask “Have you ever considered changing your name or using different gender pronouns?” At the point, the GRAY AREA line has been crossed as this seem to be a “leading question” but would it constitute “conversion therapy” … or does that only apply the question is asked in REVERSE when the therapist asks “What if changing your name and gender pronouns didn’t change the way that you are treated? Can you can find ways to do the things you want to do as a female?” BUSTED. … you have just crossed “CONVERSION THERAPY” line … pick up your fines at the desk … don’t let the door hit you on your way out. MMM-BUH-BYE.

      Where is the line?? No wonder many therapists just refer the person to a “gender specialist”.

      Liked by 3 people

    • Yes, it is possible to participate in the Psychotherapy Networker conversation – under the Recent Magazine Issue, and elsewhere. They simply require that an account is set up (there is no magazine subscription requirement or fee).There are several very relevant articles that pertain to trans-identfied youth and contrasting opinions are included.

      Liked by 1 person

  7. The first adult a youth (including college students) might turn to is a school counselor. Perhaps they aren’t sure and might want to discuss the pros/cons of such a decision as what being transgender really means for them, might not be sure they’re thinking everything thru and might want a sounding board….is this the right decision for me?

    But here is what is in the California legislation (which applies to minors…so far)…school counselors have their mouths taped shut:

    (e) The American School Counselor Association’s position statement on professional school counselors and lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgendered, and questioning (LGBTQ) youth states: “It is not the role of the professional school counselor to attempt to change a student’s sexual orientation/gender identity but instead to provide support to LGBTQ students to promote student achievement and personal well-being. Recognizing that sexual orientation is not an illness and does not require treatment, professional school counselors may provide individual student planning or responsive services to LGBTQ students to promote self-acceptance, deal with social acceptance, understand issues related to coming out, including issues that families may face when a student goes through this process and identify appropriate community resources.”

    “Attempt to change” is open to interpretation. Such a pity that “transgendered” is mixed up with “sexual orientation”. LGB aren’t considering medical procedures with permanent medical consequences that adolescents really do need critical assistance understanding, not just “self-acceptance”.

    The consequences that what a counselor says might be considered an “attempt to change”? “Any sexual orientation change efforts attempted on a patient under 18 years of age by a mental health provider shall be considered unprofessional conduct and shall subject a mental health provider to discipline by the licensing entity for that mental health provider.”

    Liked by 2 people

    • It’s pretty ironic that the URL and hashtag are “born perfect.” How does that square with the need for a lot of heavy-duty medical adjustment? That doesn’t even make sense. I know these parties are completely invested in the notion that transness is genetic, but … if you are already “perfect” why do you need extreme body alterations?

      Liked by 5 people

      • The URL for people who want to surgically change their sex is “born perfect”? Irony knows no bounds!

        Also, I have to wonder if there are people “born in the wrong body” who are really the opposite sex why is it that there are people who make a living teaching transgender people how to dress, speak, walk and act like their “real” gender? (I have only seen these services offered to/used by MtT) If natal females can absorb how to dress, speak, walk & act like stereotypical women just by absorbing it from living day-to-day in our culture, why do people who were *really* women but born in men’s bodies not absorb those same female ways of dressing, walking, talking and acting?

        Liked by 1 person

  8. This is where I feel the exploitation comes in. I am convinced that there are a good number of medical professionals who have created a highly profitable industry by promoting surgeries and hormones as a “cure” for dysphoria because this approach yields higher profits than any kind of “talk therapy”. It is expensive to support the personal development of interpersonal skills, stress management, social support networks and emotional resiliency in young people who are at risk of suicide because they feel that they don’t fit into to society. In contrast, drugs are cheap and even surgeries are more profitable than paying a mental health professional to provide quality care to an “at risk” teenager.

    It seems crazy, but our culture prefers to pay for surgery and pharmaceuticals. We, as society, are unwilling to invest in solutions to combat sexism and homophobia. Consider how many insurance companies will pay for psychiatric medications – even electric shock therapy – yet many insurance companies will not cover psychotherapy. This sis true with both mental health an physical health care. Consider the insurance companies who will pay for surgery and pain meds but will not cover physical therapy.

    Even in the treatment of “transgenderism” the psychotherapy was stripped as a pre-requisite to “transition” and I think this was pursued, in great part, because it is easier to secure funding for medical interventions. (I admit that there are other contributors).

    If our society was more tolerant of gender expression, some individuals would continue identify as transgender but I assure you, more young people would prefer to live without the side-effects and medical complications that come with medications and surgeries and many would undoubtedly opt-out if they had the viable choice. They might prefer a chosen name or gender pronoun but less would pursue medical interventions, (with the exception of the severely dysphoric.)

    Already, with granting legal rights to trans-identified individuals who do NOT elect to have SRS (sex reassignment surgeries) we have seen a drop in the most invasive procedures. If legal rights are granted, without the need to change one’s body, more people will elect to avoid taking the path of “medical transition”. With legal protection, more young people would be able to choose to live more comfortably with “social transition” only. Some may even desist entirely if they find that they can live their lives on their own terms without needing to change their bodies, documents, names or gender pronouns or to adopt gender stereotypes. I feel that many young people feel forced into “transition” because there is so much social pressure to conform.

    Is this a rational response? We are talking about teenagers.

    But there are people who say “Hey, this person still has a penis, why should they be in the locker room?” And I get that … the locker room is a sex-specific space …I don’t have a solution that everyone can agree on … (I support private dressing rooms and bathrooms at public schools) but how to fund them is another issue … Still, if we want to make it possible for people to NOT have to change their bodies to live they way they would like to live then, we clearly need to come up with some type of equitable solution; one that respects the general publics’ values and rights while also taking care to not violate the rights of people who are trans-identied.

    I know.

    This is not an easy pursuit.

    The real solution is to end violence (specifically, male violence against women and people who are perceived to be gender non-conforming) … an even more difficult task.

    Or we could say: “Who cares. Let that guy in a dress be killed in the men’s room. If he wants to cross-dress in public, let him figure it out. But then, are we not accomplices in perpetuating the idea that people must conform to gender stereotypes if they wish to survive?

    I get frustrated. I sometimes want to give up and go on with my happy life. But then, I think of my friend’s 15 year old kid who “socially transitioned” recently as “FtM” … or I think of my friend of over 20 years who came out as “FtM” just over a year ago. And I remember my younger years … the gay bashing … and the people who fought for my rights. They weren’t just gay and lesbian people … some were straight people … some were men.

    I know that walking away from the trans-identifed community is not an option for me.

    So, people resent me on both sides of the fence because i won’t take sides. But that’s alright. I have been through a lot more crap than losing another popularity contest.

    If we can put our differences aside, we may find solutions – compromises that can work before too many young, confused kids mess up their bodies or end their lives. I am sick of hearing of the suicides. I think it is fair to say that we are all of sick of the suicides. These kids look just like I did when I was a teenager. They look like the LGB (and yes, the “T”) friends that I made, just out of high school. We can help them if we are willing to focus on solutions.


    • Gender isn’t preference for glitter or matte though, it’s a caste system.

      You’re not gonna end the violence by keeping women the lower caste, the ones men (bar the self loathing metaphorical ” pigs that want to be eaten”) fear becoming treated like.

      Having it so a man’s intangible belief outweighs everything a mass of women have physically lived and learned through is not gonna rebalance this in the slightest. It tips it further, makes it worse.

      Likewise, a women fighting for belief in herself, but only as a man, is also no upset to this system

      Being barred from ever mentioning how gender works to create this set up is so unhelpful it’s dangerous.If we can’t tell a miserable kid that technically, they don’t fit a system that’s cruel and unfair, and that their resistance to it makes them so much better than they imagine themselves to be at that point in time, then that kid’s likely gonna stay miserable.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Choosing not to transition medically would be great, but it’s far from the only issue. I believe it should be viewed as a symptom of underlying mental health issues. If those aren’t dealt with in favor of not hurting the feelings of someone who just wants to “socially transition” then nothing is going to change and they won’t feel any better about themselves. Transition, even in mild forms, is a poor coping mechanism to anxiety, stress, or depression.

      …When it’s not a sexual fetish in adult men, at least. You can’t literally -be- the opposite sex. So long as you accept that basic truth, then, sure, let people dress and play however they want.

      Liked by 4 people

    • Men in stereotypically female dress have NOT been killed in restrooms. That is a straight-up myth to access ours. We must ensure that semiprivate areas like restrooms, locker rooms, etc are safe for gender nonconforming people. They should use the facility matching their biological sex.

      Liked by 1 person

  9. Oops. I missed the update about who this group is. So I guess it won’t have much weight (and perhaps shouldn’t, but the reasoning makes sense to me).


    • Yes, I also saw that this was a socially conservative group of physicians, and (unfortunately) not the big kahuna American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP). However, I still applaud their statement. Regardless of your feelings about their stance on other issues, this statement is well-reasoned and spot on. Also, it’s still an organization of a couple hundred MD’s willing to publicly state their opposition to the transgender trend — at least it’s a start!

      Liked by 1 person

  10. Thank you for this information. This is the one area where I respectfully disagree with 4thwavenow, and it stems from a lack of understanding of those who have same-sex attractions, and I do know quite a few. Quite.

    Simply put, those who have those attractions, and do not want them, have a right to self-directed therapy. The client is ALWAYS in charge. I’ve never met a pastoral, Christian therapist who would use coercive tactics. And I’ve known quite a few of these counselors, too. Unfortunately, these therapists, simply for being Christian, and believing that change is possible, are under threat like never before today.

    I would offer several links, but……. the southern poverty law center has decided to name several very good, joyful, delightful friends of mine, on their ‘hate list’. This in and of itself is abusive, elitist, egalitarian.

    In short, in this day when we have the ‘right to self-identify’, this right cannot justifiably be withheld from straights who want to be bi, or gay, or gays who want to be straight.

    It works both ways.


    • Simply put, those who have those attractions, and do not want them, have a right to self-directed therapy. The client is ALWAYS in charge.

      In the post above, 4thwavenow is talking about therapy directed at minors who are sexually drawn to members of their own sex. Are you seriously arguing that children and teenagers are “ALWAYS in charge” when it comes to therapy arranged and paid for by their parents and delivered by a therapist who has a fixed idea of the desirable outcome, and no doubt imagines that they are helping to save that child from going to Hell?

      Because everything I know about ‘good Christian families’ tells me that this is nonsense. And as the homosexual daughter of fundamentalist Christian parents, believe me, I know a lot.

      Liked by 2 people

      • romans12transformed, it did strike me that your comment ought to have referred to **adults** who are interested in changing their sexual orientation. Whether that is possible is questionable, but I would agree with you if you say an **adult** should be allowed to pursue any sort of therapy they wish. But as Artemisia said, the US laws discussed in this post apply to minors, not adults. Once again the fusion of LGB with transgender has created this mess. Trying to force a child who has same-sex attractions to change their orientation is so very different from encouraging a child to believe they can change their biological sex, and that they should therefore permanently alter their healthy bodies with drugs and surgeries.

        Liked by 1 person

      • The client is always in charge from the therapists I know personally. The difference between you and me is that I personally sought therapy at the age of 17, regardless of my parents wishes, or, believe it or not, knowledge. Their insurance paid but I refused to tell them why at first. And I fired three therapists before finding the right one for me.

        I spoke recently with a counselor on this issue of parents sending their teens to a counselor against their wishes…. I hate to break this off.. Gotta run. Be back to finish sometime today, ok? Blessings to you.


      • Good heavens. I said I would be back that very day. My apologies. Ok. I was the teen who went to counselor. And today I’ve been married for nearly 17 years. My story is like that of many others. I have been extremely busy fighting the Trans agenda in Fort Worth. Check out Stand For Fort Worth on Facebook to learn the history.


  11. It is things like this that make me:

    (a) Question the research abilities of some people, or
    (b) Wonder whether some people are hiding their homophobia under the umbrella of more socially acceptable transphobia.

    ‘Gender Reparative Therapy’ is identical to ‘Sexual Orientation Reparative Therapy’ the methodology is exactly the same.
    The ‘theory’ it was based on came from the 1970s and 80s ‘sissy boy’ studies, by Green and Rekers, where GNC (gender non conforming) behaviour meant a kid ‘might’ grow up gay, or much worse transgender. Therefore the idea went if you ‘masculinise’ them (drop the Barbies), ‘fix’ the mother (the cause of it all) then they would grow up cis and straight. Later on they expanded that to GNC girls as well.

    The same ‘treatment’ as undertaken by Zucker at CAMH.

    As did Rekers at NARTH, but without the Freudian ‘blame the mother’ bit that was tacked on……. Which should be no surprise since it was Green and Rekers that invented it. Rekers of course went onto become a founder of NARTH ..didn’t work for him though….

    They claimed endlessly at CAMH in recent years that ‘gender reparative therapy’ was not about stopping kids becoming gay, it was just about stopping them becoming trans (even if they had no symptoms of that) . In the 90s they were not so reticent and claimed that exact same ‘treatment’ would stop them becoming gay too. But at the very least they were going to be made to be invisible, straight acting, in the closet gays or lesbians.

    What is GNC behaviour lies in the eyes of the beholder of course, usually by idiotic ‘concerned’ parents. Kids that might just be quiet, artistic or intellectual could get diagnosed as that because they weren’t into ‘rough and tumble’ play, approved sports, toy trucks and all the rest. Basically it meant anything not 1950s television stereotypical gender behaviour.

    In fact many GNC kids grow up straight. Some grow up LGB and some grow up transgender. But equally many kids that appear ‘gender conforming’ grow up LGB or trans as well. The correlation is at best ‘weak’. However this spawned a huge worldwide reparative industry to ‘cure’ kids and prevent them becoming LGBT, only being ended in very recent times.

    CAMH was the centre of this for decades. They admitted that 70% of the kids they saw did not have Gender Dysphoria (GD) which is the defining symptom of being transgender. Didn’t stop them ‘treating’ those kids though.

    One kid, brought in at 5, GNC with no GD (therefore not trans in any way) got 104 sessions of ‘treatment’ including toy and friend changes to make them straight acting….’just in case’ they might have turned out gay or trans…. They then claimed ‘success’ when they didn’t turn out trans ..well duh.. bit like claiming success in treating cancer by acting on those ..without cancer…..

    To this day I am still surprised all the big LG organisations didn’t jump on this decades ago and hammer it down, leaving it to the much smaller trans ones to do it. The whole GID (gender identity disorder) thing was really closet gay reparative therapy for kids, at the very least aimed at eliminating GNC LG people like ‘feminine’ gay men and ‘butch’ lesbians from society, so gays and lesbian would become invisible, be in the closet and not ‘disturb’ straights.

    Nothing about improving societal acceptance and reducing prejudice. As far as they were concerned those were fine. Their ‘logic’ is:. nothing wrong with ‘pooftah bashing’ , they should have been more straight acting so it is their fault.

    In fact as we know some of that Toronto (etc) crowd have worked very hard to increase societal prejudice and still do to this day..


    • Oh you’re back, Lisa, with the usual tired arguments that we have gone over time and time again. Not sure why you bother, since in other venues you spread the lie that we are a bunch of homophobic, transphobic bigots who don’t care if our kids commit suicide we TERFs who want our kids in dresses and hair bows. I’ll let others respond to you if they wish but there’s nothing new here in your attempt to shame and “educate” this group of people who’ve done their homework. As a late transitioning, formerly married man, your keen interest and profound lack of knowledge about other people’s daughters is creepy, to be charitable. Bye.


      • Notice how “Lisa” intentionally misses the point that insisting that L & G kids are really trans erases their identity and is a form of reparative therapy in and of itself. Better a kid be “straight” and trans than themselves and gay, right Sir “Lisa”?


    • Lisa,
      When it comes to my own kid, I am NOT an idiot. I know her so much better than you could ever hope to. If I have NO right to tell you how to live your life, then you have NO right to tell me what is best for my child. I will tell you that the worry is crushing. There are days when it is killing me. And I know with every ounce of my being that my child would have committed suicide if I gave in to her demands for testosterone. She could not have handled it. Guess what? We approached her feelings from other angles, and right now she is a happy, healthy, GIRL who is looking forward to her future with hopes and dreams.

      I will NEVER understand how anyone can tell a child or teen that they their healthy body is wrong. It is SICKENING. If you really gave a crap about any of these kids, you would do what you could to help them find happiness in their healthy bodies instead of encouraging them to becoming lifelong medical patients with the potential for very serious side effects.


      • I have to add that my child has never really conformed to stereotypical gender roles. She will wear a dress for a formal event like a school dance, but she’d prefer to wear jeans and a t-shirt. (She doesn’t want to wear a suit, either.) She was never into dolls, but she adored all of her stuffed animals. She had about a million of them, and they were all lovingly fed, cuddled, and put to bed at night like baby dolls would be. She was obsessed with animals in general. I don’t understand our need as a society to force kids to play with “boy” toys or “girl” toys. To me they are all toys and children should choose what they like. Maybe that’s because I have an older brother, and I inherited his toys. I loved legos and baseball as much as I loved my Barbies.

        I remember going to a new friend’s house once, and I realized we weren’t going to hit it off when I walked into her bedroom. She had pink flower wallpaper, and her room was pretty pink girl heaven. She was flabbergasted when I suggested that we go play outside. She wanted to sit in her room and play with dolls. I obliged, but I was bored out of my skull. I was used to the kids in my neighborhood (boys and girls) pooling the toys and playing together, and we had a great time. Nobody cared if little Jimmy was playing with Barbie and little Susie was riding the big wheel. It was so fun just to have friends and toys to play with. EVERYONE played in the mud, got dirty, went sledding, played kick-the-can, etc. Not ONCE did any adult come along and tell me or any of my friends that we were born in the wrong body. Why is it okay to do that to these kids today?

        My kid is, by far, the coolest girl I know. I love that we can watch sports together or go out to lunch and talk about boys. She’s smart and fun and kind and caring. She is perfect just the way she is. How DARE any stranger come along on the Internet and try to convince her that her body is wrong, and that she must become a lifelong medical patient to be happy. I am disgusted that people who don’t know my kid are trying to destroy her life to further their own agendas.


  12. Pingback: The BBC controversy, clinicians and the politics of gender identity « freer lives

  13. Geeze. All I could think was: only the fittest will survive. Now, the only lesbians and gay men left will be those who are damn strong enough to know themselves and stand up to this bullshit. I can’t say that I’m upset about strong men and women being in our community — I mean, is there anything more beautiful than strength of character? But, for all those who just don’t have it in them, the side-effect shouldn’t be that they’re trans’ed into oblivion. This whole thing feels like it’s more affirming of plastic surgery than anything. Think about it. Right now, the notion is that plastic surgery is fake. There are people rebelling against it. There are actresses who have openly spoken out against it, and who refuse to get it themselves. But, if plastic surgery is no longer labeled as artificial but as that thing that will help you find your “true self,” then more people are going to be having it, because they’ll be less threatened of it annihilating their real selves. But, the sad thing is, the artificiality and unhealthiness of it shows right in the percentages of suicides that happen after getting plastic surgery. It’s not just when it’s about gender. People who get any plastic surgery are much more likely to kill themselves than anyone in the general population.

    This all feels like it’s about making money. All of it. I mean, who better to be the caricature of capitalism than a trans person who is a slave to medications and surgery for the rest of their lives? Who better than someone who will invariably have medical complications as a result of taking hormones that are meant to be in the other sex? Who needs constant affirmation? Who is always looking to be more like the sex they desire to be? — It’s an unattainable desire, so it will always be hungry for more. Always. Just look at all the industry that has come out of this. These people are 0.3% of the population and there are now baby trans penises and baby trans vaginas that you can buy for toddlers, there are ones in different colors, with special underwear for small children. There are different devices to hide one’s chest. There are period panties for transmen and fake breasts for transwomen. There are fake penises for transmen that they can urinate out of (seriously), and there are fake vaginas for transwomen for them to wear. And they are 0.3% of the population. They created all this opportunity for others to make money off of them and there are so few of them. Of course people are encouraging it. It makes them money and they have no morals. I mean, if they had morals, they’d make it illegal to feed people hydrogenated fats that are artificial and can’t be broken down properly by your body such that you get morbidly obese and suffer health problems. I went to the doctor the other day and they prescribed me antibiotics and I wasn’t even sick! They told me that I should take them just in case. But, my thought was: Isn’t that what my immune system is for?

    So the problem, I think, is a lot deeper than just trans issues. I think that we have a system where companies are allowed to make money off of us whether or not they hurt us. They’re not being held accountable. They can make cigarettes more addictive, food less nutritious and more deadly, they can size clothing in such a way that even a healthy, fit person is a “large” so that people end up feeling unjustifiably bad about themselves, they can pose malnourished, plastic surgeried models in all their ads to make normal people feel like they’re not living up to something that’s not even something that anyone should want to live up to…and they’re never held accountable for it. They’re feeding off of us like parasites and there’s nothing stopping them. They are perfectly free to eat away at our self-esteem, our mental health in general, our sense of self, and even our physical health (to a certain extent), and no one stops them. They just argue that we chose to buy whatever it is so we’re at fault. Forget the fact that their manipulations were what made that self-destructive purchase seem necessary.

    So, I think that’s what we need to fix. These companies have been using us as cash cows for too long. We’re human beings. It shouldn’t be a right that any company or industry has to mentally or physically harm people just to force them to buy their product or service. I’m telling you. If we address that, most of this trans shit will be over. Because it’s not a natural thing for people to hate themselves or their bodies — they have to be taught that. If hating yourself were natural, our species would’ve died off ages ago, because that shit doesn’t help you to survive. — If anything, it kills you.

    Liked by 1 person

  14. Pingback: Male Transgender/Transsexual Sexual Offenses and Violent Crimes List – Wolf Woman of the Northern Woods

  15. Pingback: QotD: “US conversion therapy laws: Conflating homophobia with helping gender-defiant kids feel whole” | Anti-Porn Feminists

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